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Post by chezlui on Aug 31, 2019 12:15:11 GMT
The time line was always a bit odd to me. Well, not as odd as the moment I found out that Salzburg is nowhere near Switzerland. The time line is odd anyways because the anschluss in reality took place in March. 🤷‍♀️ Yeah, but that’s a fact not a lot of people know. Or that “Anschluss” is a euphemism for “annexation”.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 5, 2019 15:06:41 GMT
I wonder how the household changes when Georg is in Vienna for long trips. Do you think it is easier or harder on Frau Schmidt (and the rest of the staff) when the Captain is away? Is it nice to get a break from his cold demeanor? Though, I would imagine many aristocrats aren’t exactly warm to their staff. Still, some of them would have known his personality from before Agathe died. Are the kids more wild when he is away, so it makes managing the household harder without him there to be the disciplinarian? I love these screencap discussions lemacd!
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 19, 2019 0:52:51 GMT
Somehow I get the feeling that he is quite decent with his staff; if he had been in the Navy, he would be used to being fair with subordinates, so I would hope that he is likewise with his domestic staff, especially as he is so dependent on them.
However, I think inevitably things must be easier when he goes away,and the kids would push the bounds more, so maybe Franz likes it better when he is there, meting out his discipline!
I wrote a piece on Fanfics called Gone, which drew an unusual relationship between Georg and Frau Schmidt (as I worked out that, with their age difference, she could have looked after him as a child). Given the possibilities of that relationship, her reaction could have been very different when he left!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 1, 2020 19:33:44 GMT
Hi lemacd! Any chance that you will start these screencap discussions up again in the new year? They are so fun to analyze, and I love your initial commentary on them as well. Happy 2020!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2020 18:45:13 GMT
Seeing that Elsa has never visited the villa before, how does Frau Schmidt know the baroness enough to have these opinions about her? Does she just think that a wealthy childless aristocrat from Vienna that takes the captain away from his family so often can't be the right fit? Or does she have some gossip from another source? She seems certain of the impeding wedding - what is she basing this off of?
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 28, 2020 22:17:51 GMT
I should think there is some gossip amongst staff at all the Big Houses, so maybe this is how she found out - chatting with friends from another establishment. Sometimes at a big party, staff would be 'borrowed', so I should think that should provide a lot of cross-fertilisation, although there hadn't been much going on at Villa von Trapp for a while.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2021 19:34:30 GMT
Do you think Frau Schmidt gossips with all of the new governesses, or does she already know that Maria is different?
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 25, 2021 22:35:51 GMT
I rather think Frau Schmidt is a gossip,because she doesn't know Maria at all, but is already spilling a few beans!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 24, 2021 1:27:42 GMT
She says "He's thinking very seriously of marrying the woman before the summer's over". Marrying. Not getting engaged. Marrying. Before the summer's over. Seems too rushed if we know it is already the summer holidays for the children. Was she just saying he is getting serious with her, or did she really think a wedding could be happening in the next couple months?
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 24, 2021 22:37:18 GMT
Yes, I think FS is giving the impression a wedding is imminent (increases the tension!). But as they are both widowed, it might make sense that they would not have a long engagement, as they have been used to living with somebody before. So a short engagement - or none at all- seems quite likely.
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Post by utility_singer on Sept 24, 2021 23:22:58 GMT
Yes, I think FS is giving the impression a wedding is imminent (increases the tension!). But as they are both widowed, it might make sense that they would not have a long engagement, as they have been used to living with somebody before. So a short engagement - or none at all- seems quite likely. This, plus the continued political unrest. Marrying sooner rather than later would have been advisable.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 25, 2021 11:50:07 GMT
Yes, I think FS is giving the impression a wedding is imminent (increases the tension!). But as they are both widowed, it might make sense that they would not have a long engagement, as they have been used to living with somebody before. So a short engagement - or none at all- seems quite likely. This, plus the continued political unrest. Marrying sooner rather than later would have been advisable. Interesting that politics could easily play a role in a short engagement for G&E, but that the same would probably not hold true for G&M. If he married his governess after a short engagement, people would likely assume a scandal and not politics was to blame.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Sept 26, 2021 1:57:31 GMT
I have often wondered what/if anything Max had to do with FS's statements. This is the first time Elsa has been to the villa, so it's not like she has met her. The Captain is hardly the type to chat about his love life, but Max seems to have an insider's view and likes to gossip.
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 27, 2021 19:39:20 GMT
FS says "..if you ask me, the Captain's thinking very seriously of marrying the woman before the summer's over."
Yes, that could well have been because Max had intimated so to her, but her use of 'the woman' is very out of keeping with her role as Housekeeper; 'Baroness Schraeder' would have been the correct form of address for her to use. So subtlely, she lets her opinion of her be known.
I agree it is unlikely FS would have found out through any other channel than Max - good spot!
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Post by Chris&Byng on Oct 1, 2021 18:33:33 GMT
This leads to another "hmmm..." Can you imagine the conversation(s) they (Max/FS) have had? I imagine there's Max who wants to keep all the lovely money in the family...but he has probably woven some stories about Elsa and her habits, her social life, what she and Georg do in Vienna, maybe even talk about boarding school. Max would probably be the first to admit Elsa is not motherly. (I always love his comment about a "fiendish delight" at seeing Elsa as the mother of 7 children!) And there's FS who is probably not in the least impressed with the Captain abandoning the children (but being somewhat empathetic at the same time); I think she is forlorn with the idea of what the late Baroness would think of it all and how it affects the children. The frequent changing of the guard in the governess world obviously impacts FS as I bet she is the stand-in parent when the governess flees the villa. The "woman" is an interesting reference as you have said indigoblue, so FS seems to have pegged her already as poor motherly material, and not worthy of respect, which would certainly be gleaned via be second-hand information. I wonder, also, if the Captain is famous in Austria, the people he keeps in his company are also well-known. There could be gossip in general that makes it back to the villa.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 1, 2021 23:07:31 GMT
Yes, that's a good point: two gossips together, Max and FS...
In fact, do you see some similarity in their general mannerisms and deportment?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 4, 2021 19:18:42 GMT
Do the children only have a governess during the summer months? Seems like 12 is A LOT of goverenesses to run off in just a few summers, but maybe not. I'm just wondering why Maria is only needed until September. Is this because the children will be back in school and no longer will need a governess? Or does this tie back to what FS is saying about the captain likely getting married before the summer is over (therefore Maria would not be needed because the children would have a new mother to take care of them.) Maybe Georg asked RM for someone until September because he knew he was going to propose/marry to Elsa before then?
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 8, 2021 22:48:00 GMT
I assumed it was because the kids would be back at school in September. What would have happened in the Christmas and Easter holidays? Maybe some of the 'discarded' governesses had come then, although 12 is still a lot! And the kids would need someone to look after them even when they were at school - school runs and at weekends etc. Can't quite see Elsa fulfilling that role!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 14, 2021 1:10:18 GMT
Yes, that's a good point: two gossips together, Max and FS... In fact, do you see some similarity in their general mannerisms and deportment? This would be a fun fanfiction. The two of them together, maybe with a drink to loosen their tongues, and then out with the all the dirty laundry on everyone. I'm sure they both know way more than they let on..
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 24, 2021 22:55:16 GMT
Back to the 12 governess questions - I think a governess is someone with whom you are supposed to have a long-term relationship, not someone you just get for holidays and summers. So I don't think the September date is because they're going back to school (and anyway for parts of the four years since their mother died, there were any number of children not old enough for school, so the governess would be caring for them. Although I think the real vT family had a nanny AND a governess who fought all the time). I think the twelve is to make the point that the children are truly awful to the previous governesses, making Maria even more magical. So why does the Reverend Mother mention September? I don't know! Maybe the wedding to Elsa, although would the Captain have told the Reverend Mother that? If I recall correctly, the real Maria was sent to the vTs for much longer than just the summer.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 1, 2021 21:10:15 GMT
I doubt that Georg would say any specific reason to RM on his September timeline, especially if it involved hinting at a wedding that he hasn't even proposed for yet. I like that you point out that even in September in years past, some of the kids wouldn't be in school. Though, this year, Gretl would likely be in kindergarten, so maybe this was the motivation this particular year? The kids are going back to school, so they won't need quite as much supervision, plus, they will have a "new mother" to care for them when they get home?
Though, Georg has to know that Elsa is not going to be very mothering. This is obvious even to people that haven't even met her yet (like Frau Schmidt).
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 4, 2021 0:17:36 GMT
Maybe the 'September issue' is actually a time limit put in place by the Rev Mother? If Maria was sent away to be a governess indefinitely, she wouldn't have a chance to show she had mended her ways until she returned to the Abbey, which could be many months, even years ahead.
I think the RM decided 2-3 months or so would be enough for Maria to get away from the Abbey and have a rethink about what she wanted to do from afar. Then, come September, she could return and decide if Abbey life was for her. Any less time and it probably wouldn't be enough for the von Trapps (the Captain may have said he would be away for some of it).
I always thought the RM was a wily one!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 7, 2021 0:31:28 GMT
That's an interesting angle! Maybe RM did set the timeline. After all, she couldn't be expected to send one of her postulants away indefinitely, and the captain was desperate for help, so he wasn't in a position to argue with whatever time frame she saw fit. It's certainly possible.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Nov 11, 2021 1:21:16 GMT
Maybe the 'September issue' is actually a time limit put in place by the Rev Mother? If Maria was sent away to be a governess indefinitely, she wouldn't have a chance to show she had mended her ways until she returned to the Abbey, which could be many months, even years ahead. I think the RM decided 2-3 months or so would be enough for Maria to get away from the Abbey and have a rethink about what she wanted to do from afar. Then, come September, she could return and decide if Abbey life was for her. Any less time and it probably wouldn't be enough for the von Trapps (the Captain may have said he would be away for some of it). I always thought the RM was a wily one! I always thought that the timeline was a RM creation, too. A governess would be a long-term relationship with the Von Trapps (if it worked out)...but if Maria knew she was being sent away, perhaps indefinitely, she would never have agreed to go. This was a good way for RM to have Maria 'test the waters'; so, by making it look like it's a short-term gig, Maria is more likely to try it out and follow 'God's will'.
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Post by missisa on Nov 26, 2021 21:01:47 GMT
I support the motion! RM "offers" M to the Captain until September, it is like a test for her and a favor for a desperate widower to find a governess. It totally makes sense.
I also find the gossiping between FS and Max very plausible, and it is to be assumed that Max goes to the Trapp Villa relatively frequently since the children get so excited when CvT announces that he will bring him with them.
The telegram the Captain receives? I can easily imagine that it is from Elsa announcing that, finally, she accepts the visit to Salzburg but asking G in return for an anticipated favor, which is to accompany her to one of her social commitments in Vienna, hence the urgency of leaving the next day and then his sarcastic words during the lake walking: "your glittering salons, gossiping gaily with bores I detest, soaking myself in champagne, stumbling about to waltzes by Strausses I can't even remember? Is that what you're saying? -Yes. Now whatever gave you that idea?"
EVERYTHING FITS! (sorry when it is about quoting some lines I just get going and I can't stop!)
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 14, 2022 1:19:41 GMT
I was thinking about FS today and wondering about her motivation in bringing up Elsa to Maria that first night. Do you think FS knew that Maria was from the convent? Or did Georg keep that to himself? Maybe FS was hoping that the new governess had some gossip of her own from previous employment to share so she gave some up, hoping to hear a reply like "I shouldn't be saying this either, but you'll never guess what I heard about Baroness Schraeder while working at the (insert important last name)'s villa..."
Then, Maria responds with innocent excitement and FS has to politely end the conversation with no new gossip.
Or maybe I'm way off and FS is just being kind trying to give the governess some info about this strange new household.
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 19, 2022 23:00:41 GMT
Hmm, yes it seems likely that FS threw Maria a fish, both to keep her informed of the situation (which was quite right), but also to test whether she had any corresponding gossip to offer in return, most likely from another place of employment. So my thinking is that FS didn't know Maria was from the Abbey.
So when did FS cotton on that her employer had the hots for this new nun?
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 16, 2022 21:44:24 GMT
So when did FS cotton on that her employer had the hots for this new nun? This is a fun question. It's hard to say. I imagine FS to often be in earshot of the action, not necessarily to eavesdrop, but to be ready to swoop in and handle refreshments, cleanup, directing the children etc. as necessary. Did she see/hear The Argument or The Apology? Even if she didn't, I think once the captain communicated to her that things were changing - no more uniforms, no more whistles, children have playtime, the ballroom is being cleaned out for a puppet show, etc. she would know Maria had gotten through to him. And it would maybe be a logical conclusion that there was something more to their relationship than meets the eye if she was able to accomplish so much so quickly. Maybe FS even thought they were having...a more scandalous relationship than they were, and that is how she was able to make him change his ways so drastically? Or did she know Georg and his grieving heart better than that? Probably, right? I'm rambling. I think she suspected after the changes happened, but didn't know for sure until after the party (what could possibly make the beloved governess leave in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to the children? Only a broken heart).
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Post by indigoblue on May 16, 2022 22:39:42 GMT
I think FS's feminine intuition would have let her know Something was Going On fairly early in the affair, fuelled by the fact that she didn't think Elsa was a suitable future wife or mother to the kids. She would have seen those glances, lingering looks etc and drawn her own conclusions. Probably starting when Maria left, but seeing Georg's sadness would have got her thinking. Must have been frustrating for her not to be able to say anything...or did she?!
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