|
|
Post by augiesannie on Jul 22, 2021 22:41:02 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Jul 23, 2021 21:18:09 GMT
So many wonderful points in that article. But yes, I think we've touched on all of them here.
There are some very good links in there, I'm reading some of them. Fun stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 30, 2021 23:01:00 GMT
I like that the Laendler scene = Georg and Maria making out in their heads. hahaha. yes.
|
|
galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
|
Post by galan on Aug 5, 2021 12:05:35 GMT
I'll be honest, the comment about the movie being soft on the Nazis bothers me. Obviously, Nazis = evil, but that is something I think we all know looking back. But this took place in the 1930s, before the world really understood how bad the Nazis were. Properly setting something in the 1930s means you don't have anything that happened in the 1940s to define things. Sorry, one of my college majors was history, which taught me to understand things in their own context, not necessarily looking back.
|
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Aug 6, 2021 11:28:01 GMT
I'll be honest, the comment about the movie being soft on the Nazis bothers me. Obviously, Nazis = evil, but that is I I thnk we all know looking back. But this took place in the 1930s, before the world really understood how bad the Nazis were. Properly setting something in the 1930s means you don't have anything that happened in the 1940s to define things. Sorry, one of my college majors was history, which taught me to understand things in their own context, not necessarily looking back. Hello fellow history major! And I agree with you from the 1930s POV - in fact, many Austrians were positive or ambivalent about reunification, which is why Austria was treated by the Allies as a hostile power. AND much of the opposition (like Georg IRL) was not progressive, they were monarchists - they hated Hitler and the Nazis but not because they wanted a liberal democracy in its place :-) . I think it is OK for the film to show Georg opposing the Nazis but I don't think most Austrians felt the way he did. It would have been weird for them to show that. OTOH - just to state the obvious, I guess one could say the film is soft on them from the viewers POV, as you say, we know what the Nazis were really like. I often think to myself, "what real Nazis would have done to the Abbey and the nuns?" It reminds me of this silly TV show called Hogan's Heroes in the 1960s about a lighthearted group of resisters operating out of a Nazi prison camp. Very offensive to people who actually suffered during the war. |
|
galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
|
Post by galan on Aug 6, 2021 23:11:50 GMT
I'll be honest, the comment about the movie being soft on the Nazis bothers me. Obviously, Nazis = evil, but that is I I thnk we all know looking back. But this took place in the 1930s, before the world really understood how bad the Nazis were. Properly setting something in the 1930s means you don't have anything that happened in the 1940s to define things. Sorry, one of my college majors was history, which taught me to understand things in their own context, not necessarily looking back. Hello fellow history major! And I agree with you from the 1930s POV - in fact, many Austrians were positive or ambivalent about reunification, which is why Austria was treated by the Allies as a hostile power. AND much of the opposition (like Georg IRL) was not progressive, they were monarchists - they hated Hitler and the Nazis but not because they wanted a liberal democracy in its place :-) . I think it is OK for the film to show Georg opposing the Nazis but I don't think most Austrians felt the way he did. It would have been weird for them to show that. OTOH - just to state the obvious, I guess one could say the film is soft on them from the viewers POV, as you say, we know what the Nazis were really like. I often think to myself, "what real Nazis would have done to the Abbey and the nuns?" It reminds me of this silly TV show called Hogan's Heroes in the 1960s about a lighthearted group of resisters operating out of a Nazi prison camp. Very offensive to people who actually suffered during the war. Oh, I completely agree many of those opposed to the Nazis were pretty reactionary, I just think that we have to remember the context. In my opinion, even though we as the viewers know everything that's coming down the pipeline, it's not quite accurate to portray them in that light. Just based on that part of the article, whoever wrote it is an intentionalist; I live in the middle of that argument leaning ever so slightly to the functionalist side. Man, I need to read up more on the interwar period. The history I studied as much as possible was pre-classical Greece; in another lifetime, I wanted to be an Assyriologist (and I think I just butchered that word). Then I realized I wasn't smart enough! |
|
|
|
Post by juliemadlydeeply on Aug 8, 2021 16:48:59 GMT
Oh! Other history students and enthusiasts! How delightful!
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one bothered reading this article. Beyond the fact that they ignore that most aristocrats were anti-NSDAP because they were largely anti-democracy, I was put off by the odd collection of talking heads they gathered! Why is there an astrophysicist weighing in just as much as a historian? Either way, I think the film doesn't portray the feelings of Austrians towards Hitler and Nazism at the time very well, though I know Bob Wise threatened to use real footage of Austrian crowds cheering wildly at Hitler's speeches and parades.
Also, as someone who is LGBTQ, I disliked that they didn't have someone who specialized in LGBTQ history as the historian commenting on Maria's being "subliminally homosexual". I have a lot to say about that opinion regardless, but it irked me that they didn't take the time to get a comment from someone who studies LGBTQ history or the history of LGBTQ presence in theater and film.
|
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Aug 8, 2021 23:17:54 GMT
Oh! Other history students and enthusiasts! How delightful! I'm so glad I wasn't the only one bothered reading this article. Beyond the fact that they ignore that most aristocrats were anti-NSDAP because they were largely anti-democracy, I was put off by the odd collection of talking heads they gathered! Why is there an astrophysicist weighing in just as much as a historian? Either way, I think the film doesn't portray the feelings of Austrians towards Hitler and Nazism at the time very well, though I know Bob Wise threatened to use real footage of Austrian crowds cheering wildly at Hitler's speeches and parades. Also, as someone who is LGBTQ, I disliked that they didn't have someone who specialized in LGBTQ history as the historian commenting on Maria's being "subliminally homosexual". I have a lot to say about that opinion regardless, but it irked me that they didn't take the time to get a comment from someone who studies LGBTQ history or the history of LGBTQ presence in theater and film. I think I've read that about Maria's character elsewhere, juliemadlydeeply, and am interested in your thoughts should you wish to share. |
|
|
|
Post by missisa on Sept 17, 2021 20:35:06 GMT
Hey there!
I've found the top article of this thread (Things Only Adults Notice in the Sound of Music) so interesting and full of good, fun and very well documented links.
Perhaps the only thing I disagree with (it almost hurt) is the suggestion that TSOM was weak in its condemnation of Nazism and that the Captain was anti-Nazi only because of border issues (as if that was extremely superficial).
Already the same article defends itself of what I am going to say but here I go:
1. Before and during Nazism, not everyone was as well informed about the atrocities that we all know.
2. TSOM is not a war movie (it was almost conceived as such but RW had other plans) therefore it is logical that they do not delve into justifying every reference to politics.
3. When Georg hugs Maria after reading the telegram, he expresses something like: "To refuse them would be fatal for all of us" which for me suggests that our dear captain really hates and fears the Nazis for something more than flags and borders.
4. The scene of the ripping of the flag speaks for itself.
|
|
