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Post by lemacd on Dec 9, 2013 14:13:40 GMT
ok, so light bulb... (or laurel catching up... but that is more of a *whoosh* sound).
elsa says, "georg, you never told me how enchanting your children are." and he almost immediately turns to look for maria. like something clicked. that is exactly what maria had just finished arguing with him about. elsa summed up what maria was trying to tell him.
i never made this connection until today.
so... in dcamel world (lemacd backwards... my own private alternate universe. you're always welcome there), georg says, "yes, they are rather, aren't they?" and maria flies in like a loon. "oh sure! i've been saying this for the last five minutes, but she says it in nine words and you agree. what a typical man. i'm definitely becoming a nun, who needs this?"
yeah, dcamel world isn't always fun. just get the tourist visa.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 9, 2013 14:39:38 GMT
Haha! That's good.
In my private, alternate universe, he'd head straight for Maria, literally sweep her off her feet, and carry her right up those stairs.
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Post by lemacd on Dec 9, 2013 20:50:24 GMT
in utility world...
gretl: where is Father going with Fraulein Maria? max: ... liesl: ... elsa: they are going to pray, dear. if you wait, you'll hear them both talking to God.
i cannot believe you made me go there.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 9, 2013 21:25:50 GMT
LOL that is fab.
It's not like you haven't enjoyed the trip ;-)
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Post by lemacd on Dec 9, 2013 22:10:51 GMT
enjoy it? i'm not sure how i got here...
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 10, 2013 0:38:54 GMT
On a different note: I like lemacd's read about the way he looks at Maria. I always thought it was, "and who do I have to thank for the beautiful way my children just greeted Elsa? Oh. Right, the shrewish governess." But I like lemacd's read on it even better: "someone else was just saying that to me, hm.... oh, right. Her."
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Post by lemacd on Dec 10, 2013 1:22:56 GMT
yes. i used to think it was gretl's actions that made him think of maria, but now i think it was elsa's line... it sums up everything maria was just yelling at him about. my interpretation of this has totally changed. it's been quite a day!
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 10, 2013 1:30:01 GMT
any other revelations about TSOM?
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Post by lemacd on Dec 10, 2013 1:43:03 GMT
nope, that was it for today. for me it was pretty huge, though.
actually, now that i think about it, i watched franz's reaction to maria when she first arrives. observation: join the nazi party, have your personality automatically disappear. true story.
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Post by mie779 on Dec 10, 2013 12:20:20 GMT
oh loved this... great revelation lemacd... think I would say that this might be were he starts to recognize some new feelings for Maria... maybe... ?? It sure gives that scene some new perspective
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 10, 2013 12:46:29 GMT
oh loved this... great revelation lemacd... think I would say that this might be were he starts to recognize some new feelings for Maria... maybe... ?? It sure gives that scene some new perspective Absolutely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 20:51:05 GMT
I think what makes the moment all the more poignant is to remember that the first exchange Georg ever had with Maria about the children was him defending them - "Oh, there's nothing wrong with the children, only the governesses." He's carried that belief with him until that very moment when he realizes just how different from ALL of them Maria is.
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Post by mireille on Feb 20, 2014 21:00:36 GMT
I think what makes the moment all the more poignant is to remember that the first exchange Georg ever had with Maria about the children was him defending them - "Oh, there's nothing wrong with the children, only the governesses." He's carried that belief with him until that very moment when he realizes just how different from ALL of them Maria is. I think he knew she was different when she was curtsying in the ballroom and later, blowing that whistle at him. You can see the look in his face. “this one is trouble.”
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 21:09:20 GMT
Fair point. That could be why he told her there was nothing wrong with the children..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 21:13:47 GMT
I have never read through this one before either. I'm laughing so hard right now!!
Actually about 2 days ago I had been returning to this scene for further ultra-micro analysis. I was trying to gage the expression on Elsa's face when Georg leaves the room to go after Maria to see whether she worked out the writing was on the wall for her and Georg here (so one scene before the after the puppet show moment). Results: inconclusive. She seems a bit more perplexed that he leaves rather than "why is my man running off to talk to that young thing who is looking pretty good dripping wet?" I'll have to go and research it some more... Slo-mo coming up!!
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Post by mireille on Feb 20, 2014 21:23:19 GMT
@tantekj , Maybe he understood his own feelings even more in that moment. ‘Yes she’s not only different but very special.’
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Post by lemacd on Feb 20, 2014 22:31:41 GMT
elsa probably guessed (if she couldn't hear it) that G fired M. watching him run off to tell her something could be the first inkling that M was someone to keep an eye on. i don't know that elsa understood what just happened. she probably didn't know anything about the strained relationship b/w him and the children or at the least didn't care. that something makes him change his mind about maria must be a little bothersome. really elsa is operating in the dark at this point, i think. i mean, max may have clued her in to things ahead of time, but honestly i don't think elsa and max thought of the children much at all.
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Post by mireille on Feb 20, 2014 22:38:22 GMT
At dinner the children seemed very happy that uncle Max would visit them. Maybe he didn't spend much time with them because of Elsa. After she left, he had more time for the children. He even looked after them for a month.
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Post by utility_singer on Feb 21, 2014 0:40:07 GMT
I think Elsa knew he wasn't close to the children (if he was, he wouldn't keep running off to Vienna for weeks/months at a time), and I think she really didn't care, because she didn't want them around anyway.
I do think Max knew, and cared. The children obviously love Uncle Max, and I see it as him being probably the only adult in their lives that would treat them, and allow them to behave with him, as children---their father obviously didn't, and probably the staff didn't dare.
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Post by lemacd on Feb 21, 2014 3:31:23 GMT
while this is all true, from elsa's point of view, it was probably typical, that parents left the children and their care to servants and took advantage to travel and whatnot. max, knowing the family better, would know it wasn't typical, but he's self-absorbed. good for a laugh, charged extravagant gifts to their father, etc, so yeah... "yay, uncle max!" i'm not saying he didn't care. i think he wanted old georg back as much as anyone, but... he didn't seem to dislike the current state of georg so much either.
just for the sake of discussion...
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Post by utility_singer on Feb 21, 2014 4:03:22 GMT
Yes, I almost added the 'typical' point to my own post.
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 21, 2014 12:27:08 GMT
I think what makes the moment all the more poignant is to remember that the first exchange Georg ever had with Maria about the children was him defending them - "Oh, there's nothing wrong with the children, only the governesses." He's carried that belief with him until that very moment when he realizes just how different from ALL of them Maria is. this is a great point. Because you know, Elsa may have meant it genuinely, or it might have just been polite chatter, but the truth is . . . maybe he'd forgotten himself.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 29, 2019 15:45:16 GMT
I wonder what is going through Elsa’s mind when Georg starts singing with his children. It was just a nice little song that the children were singing for her, then Georg starts in and the children stop singing and look shocked, then the song is over and he looks at them like he is seeing them, truly seeing them, for the first time in years. I’m sure she had no idea what kind of turning point she was witnessing.
My favorite part of this entire movie is after the song is over and Georg opens his arms and Brigitta falls into them as the other children rush to be near him. LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT!
Gretl looks to Maria for direction, which I think is sweet. “You never told me how enchanting your children are.” And Georg shakes his head no, I think mostly to himself because he didn’t know himself how enchanting his children are. He just cared that they looked nice and marched in a straight line, which reminds him of the argument he just had, so he turns to find Maria.
What a big day for the captain. He just realized that he is not being a great parent to his children, but has to desire to change. But this realization forces him to see Maria differently too. As he looks at her on the stairs, she is no longer the undisciplined unsophisticated troublemaker he has cast her to be up until this point. She is now his savior (sorry). At least, she has saved his relationship with his children, which no one had dared attempt to do until this point, so I think he now has great respect for her and her opinions. And ultimately, she set the groundwork to save him from a marriage of convenience (I think that even if he hadn’t fallen for Maria, just his desire to spend more time being a good father would have ended things with Elsa eventually).
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 29, 2019 23:01:45 GMT
Yes, it was pretty turbulent day for Elsa, arriving as she did when the kids turned up in the boat with Maria,then having to excuse herself from an imminent pitched battle between those two, shortly followed by Georg arriving in the sitting room in stupefied form, seemingly mesmerised by his kids singing SOM!
Not surprised she looked somewhat nonplussed - she must have wondered what on EARTH went on in this crazy house!
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 15, 2021 22:48:58 GMT
I really like Georg's change of expression after this line. He shakes his head no in answer to her question, but never seems like he is completely paying attention to her. He is just basking in how enchanting they are to him. Then, bam, it hits him like a ton of bricks and he realizes the depth of what Maria has done for him.
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Post by augiesannie on May 16, 2021 20:34:17 GMT
I really like Georg's change of expression after this line. He shakes his head no in answer to her question, but never seems like he is completely paying attention to her. He is just basking in how enchanting they are to him. Then, bam, it hits him like a ton of bricks and he realizes the depth of what Maria has done for him. such a great point. I always just thought that was a rough spot in the script but of course it makes perfect sense the way you describe it!
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jun 20, 2021 18:00:23 GMT
I think there is also an element of Maria making Georg look 'good' in the eyes of Elsa that softens him, despite the whole boat incident.
I feel that Maria was quite set on helping the children to find a new mother again and worked really hard with them while Georg was away (and applying her own style of discipline) so they would make a good impression when the Baroness returned. Can you imagine all the work she would have done to get them to sing like that, to know what to do that after their father dismissed them to go and get changed and return to the landing...then they had the where-with-all (7 children!) to get dressed, fix their hair, get in formation and start singing in a relatively short period of time. I think Georg realizes the enormity of all this after Elsa makes that comment.
In the argument he just had, he was furious because Maria had let the children run around Salzburg wearing drapes. They swamp the boat together and look like drowned rats - so much for good first impressions. It's all looking like the children have descended into "hooligan-ness" to Georg and he's spitting fire. Then, there's the sudden realization that she had worked miracles and he never thought it possible. After all, the last thing we see him say to Maria is that he hoped before he returned, she would have acquired some discipline (he didn't have high expectations when he left for Vienna!) and his impression to that point is that she had acquired none.
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 27, 2021 22:22:19 GMT
I suppose it is that Maria has shown selflessness in coaching the children to sing well to Elsa and through that, to show Georg in a good light.
[Perhaps Georg is just becoming aware that Elsa has a good dose of self- interest which explains why he is cooling off from her.]
Despite being quite willful at the Abbey, Maria grows into a woman who puts others at the centre of her world, and I'm sure this is what resonates with Georg; his naval career would have involved putting his country before his own life.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jun 29, 2021 23:12:11 GMT
I suppose it is that Maria has shown selflessness in coaching the children to sing well to Elsa and through that, to show Georg a good light. [Perhaps Georg is just becoming aware that Elsa has a good dose of self- interest which explains why he is cooling off from her.] Despite being quite willful at the Abbey, Maria grows into a woman who puts others at the centre of her world, and I'm sure this is what resonates with Georg; his naval career would have involved putting his country before his own life. this--> love this idea (I might need to borrow it for my story, if that is ok?) ...and likewise, Maria is the only woman who is going to give up her life as she knows it to flee her homeland with her new family. Elsa would not be caught dead giving up anything!
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 30, 2021 21:59:43 GMT
Yes, borrow away!
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