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Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 13:07:24 GMT
I don't think I'd ever seen these pictures before of CP with his first wife (and child) and with his second wife. Someone once wrote that they sensed a little bit of wistfulness in his memoir about the way his marriages ended, although he acknowledges that his behavior played a large part. His first wife went on to be pretty well known, and appears in one of the videos I've posted talking about his drinking but I've never seen much about the fate of his second wife who was still struggling with the after effects of the brain injury suffered when they were in an accident. (She does figure prominently in one of the videos I posted here last summer). Anyway, enjoy, and more info welcome!
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 13:27:18 GMT
I've seen the one with Tammy and Amanda before, but not the one with Pat. He looks damn fine in both.
Perhaps some of the wistfulness is because he seems to have married them both out of a sense of duty and honor (Tammy because she was pregnant, Pat in the aftermath of the accident). Those were the days when an out-of-wedlock baby would have ruined Tammy's career. I seem to remember him even saying he married Pat because he thought it was the 'right' thing to do? Sense of guilt over her being so badly injured when he wasn't, or not wanting to feel like a cad for leaving her, or appearing to leave, while she was recovering. He did say, ironically, that it was her self-medicating with booze that partially led to their breakup, if I remember correctly.
Whatever the reasons, he certainly doesn't candy coat any of his own misdeeds. I came away really respecting him for that---and understanding why he chose the title he did.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 13:34:10 GMT
So well put. I don't have the book with me :-) , my memory is that he captures the sweetness of his and T's early attempt at marriage despite the wreck he made of it. And that he doesn't exactly SAY he married P for the reasons you state so eloquently, he just kind of abruply says he married her, but it comes across the way you say. Do you remember (of course you do) the scene where she vomits at the bullfights in Spain, in marked contrast to Elaine? And yes, I think he says that while he and her doctors did plead with her to stop drinking, he also was -- this phrase sticks in my mind -- "hopelessly restless" - ehrm, that's one way of saying it. And the way he gave her almost everything when they divorced, lots of guilt there. I need to go back and look at that video again. And I wonder what happened to her.
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Wives
Dec 28, 2013 13:44:07 GMT
Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 13:44:07 GMT
I don't have the book here, either, I let a friend borrow it.
Yes, I think he and Tammy did try, if only for the sake of Amanda. He certainly blames himself, though it seemed to me she wasn't much more invested in their marriage than he was.
Regarding Pat, she was a dancer, I think? IMdB has basically nothing on her at all (three credits, and her marriage to Chris. Nothing at all after 1968. I would imagine he was quite 'restless' as he says; remaining faithful was seemingly not a skill he had much success with until he met Elaine.
Though I remain convinced of his emotional, if not physical, affair with Julie.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 13:53:32 GMT
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Post by lemacd on Dec 28, 2013 13:58:02 GMT
i can get with an emotional affair. even a physical affair in the beginning. but you once said 'same time, next year' and i don't think they would have done that... especially since they went on to long (seemingly) happy marriages.
that said, we'll never know. i'm almost certain of that.
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Wives
Dec 28, 2013 14:08:50 GMT
Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 14:08:50 GMT
Yeah, the 'same time next year' was more in jest, but you are correct and I don't think we will ever know.
eta: it would make an interesting fanfic, though.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 14:35:46 GMT
call it our own little AU fanfic, huh?
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 14:39:00 GMT
call it our own little AU fanfic, huh? I edited my post at the exact same time to say that!
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Post by lemacd on Dec 28, 2013 14:48:01 GMT
i know it's all speculation and i know you were kidding... it's just that when comes to these two people, i want any kind of relationship they have with each other to be unique one-of-a-kind and almost, uh... i don't know what words i want, so... perfect beyond definition.
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Post by lemacd on Dec 28, 2013 14:48:39 GMT
... better than fantasy. maybe that is what i mean.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 15:03:51 GMT
So if they actually got together, it would kind of make your head explode?
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 15:10:35 GMT
actually, the flirty not-quite-getting-together could be quite engaging too, you know?
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 15:18:43 GMT
Yes. Yes, I know.
Anyone got a fan?
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Wives
Dec 28, 2013 15:44:32 GMT
Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 15:44:32 GMT
have you ever run across the fanfic that's actually about the two of them hooking up -- and I chose my terms carefully, that's just about what it felt like -- while making the film? not my favorite.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 15:57:07 GMT
Yeah, I found that one. It wasn't to my taste at all. It didn't fit with what (little) we actually do know about them, and about their friendship. Too crass, and disrespectful if it isn't too strange a thing to say. This, from a woman who can't seem to stop writing M rated stories.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 28, 2013 19:02:45 GMT
I think the respect thing actually matters quite a bit.
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Post by lemacd on Dec 28, 2013 20:18:12 GMT
do you think julie ever sat on chris's lap? just a question. no reason...
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 28, 2013 22:09:40 GMT
Back then? In front of other people? Like so a photo could be found? Not sure, but I would doubt it. In private? Quite probably. That one photo of them near the tree, she was nearly in his lap anyway.
Just the idea is giving me heatstroke.
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Post by paula on Jan 4, 2014 13:01:27 GMT
Don't you all wish we could get all three wives to "dish a little dirt" on him? Yes, ladies, tell us about this gorgeous man that we find so irresistible!
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 4, 2014 13:32:23 GMT
I imagine Elaine would have several volumes worth of tales to tell about him. I'd love to hear them all.
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Wives
Sept 9, 2019 4:39:41 GMT
Post by NatureCalleth on Sept 9, 2019 4:39:41 GMT
I've seen the one with Tammy and Amanda before, but not the one with Pat. He looks damn fine in both. Perhaps some of the wistfulness is because he seems to have married them both out of a sense of duty and honor (Tammy because she was pregnant, Pat in the aftermath of the accident). Those were the days when an out-of-wedlock baby would have ruined Tammy's career. I seem to remember him even saying he married Pat because he thought it was the 'right' thing to do? Sense of guilt over her being so badly injured when he wasn't, or not wanting to feel like a cad for leaving her, or appearing to leave, while she was recovering. He did say, ironically, that it was her self-medicating with booze that partially led to their breakup, if I remember correctly. Whatever the reasons, he certainly doesn't candy coat any of his own misdeeds. I came away really respecting him for that---and understanding why he chose the title he did. What is this accident y'all are talking about??
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Wives
Apr 13, 2020 17:48:33 GMT
Post by emilia78 on Apr 13, 2020 17:48:33 GMT
What is this accident y'all are talking about?? Around 1961-2 CP lived in London, had an affair with Trish, and one evening, late after midnight, they had a terrible car accident. The car was smashed, she came out seriously injured and he with some insignificant bruises...
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Wives
Apr 13, 2020 17:51:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by NatureCalleth on Apr 13, 2020 17:51:45 GMT
Around 1965 CP lived in London, had an affair with Trish, and one evening, late after midnight, they had a terrible car accident. The car was smashed, she came out seriously injured and he with some insignificant bruises... Who is Trish?
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Wives
Apr 13, 2020 20:44:38 GMT
Post by emilia78 on Apr 13, 2020 20:44:38 GMT
His second wife, Patricia Lewis, she was a journalist!
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Wives
Apr 14, 2020 9:03:28 GMT
Post by emilia78 on Apr 14, 2020 9:03:28 GMT
I imagine Elaine would have several volumes worth of tales to tell about him. I'd love to hear them all. I think that they just went after the same things, that is why their marriage succeeded. He did not like kids or family, he enjoyed food, wines, good life, nice houses, and Elaine accepted all these likes also. I also think that nobody can save another person from anything, support yes, but save no way!!CP is very very smart to get outstaged by drinking habits. The clarity of his mind and his age until now prove that he lived a quality life, not a life of substance-and-drinks abuse. Also take into account that Elaine did not continue her acting career. She turned herself into decorating houses later on. I think when he was with Tammy, both were very young, ambitious, with whole life ahead of them and when the feelings went flat, they separated. He went to London to pursue a shakespearean career, there he met Patricia who was a journalist who because of her job knew many circles and introduced him to many people (he says that in his memoir). After the accident he married her and later they led different lives. We know that during filming of Sound of Music he was alone and he says that he had no contact with her. And around his 40s he meets a sexy young woman, Elaine and settles with her. I think that for these reasons CP could not establish a lasting relationship with JA. Unfortunately for us, although we want them desperately together because we are swept over by the magic of the film. Julie came from a broken home, she had an unhappy marriage but also a child with her, thus a heavy responsibility on her but also a great genuine love with her daughter. He was alone also although married again. I don't believe that they had any kind of romantic relationship, I say again unfortunately for us!! I would give everything to go back in time and see them together....She was very introvert, shy, and family-type of person. He was a bon vivant. This means that they had different needs to satisfy...JA found in Blake Edwards the suitable person to form a big family with five kids. CP found Elaine with whom he continued to be what he always was and is until now, a bon vivant. I also believe that all this talking about his drinking habit is more a provoking stereotypical issue than a real one. Like the authors that in order to write, they got drunk, smoked heavily and yet they wrote masterpieces. Their passion became their work or their curse. He is far too intelligent and excellent stage actor to get drunk continuously and lose control of himself. His great shape, his control at stage, all these difficult plays he played at the theatre require a relatively strict life in order to face the challenges, he could not get drunk every day and then play at evening with the required focus and attention. I think he tries to shape a persona of his own (the heavily drinking man who played shakespeare) to address the media and his fans who imagine him as the attractive, provoking, good-looking bad boy! Bad boys are interesting and thought-provoking. He makes you wonder, in this scene is he drunk? Does he seem like drunk? You pay more attention to him, his gestures, his way of speaking whereas if you knew that no!!! he is not drunk at all, on the contrary he is absolutely sober, you would not notice him as much. Something similar takes place with the love theme between co-actors, if we know that they are really in love, our curiosity becomes greater and hotter, and for this reason I believe they all try to maintain such impressions. Think, would he sell the same tickets if he presented himself as a good boy? He likes being cynical, he appreciates greatly good humour, he is exquisitely well-bred, he came from an aristocratic family with a mother that adored art and culture, he wanted to be a pianist before becoming an actor because he thought it was easier and less lonely. If he didn't mention drinking and bad habits (like all male actors of that time showed bad habits), then he would be like a modern prince or a wanna-be-politician supporting moral values and ethical austerity, not an artist, a stage actor trying to provoke people and make them curious to come to theatre, pay money and see him. I mean he shapes a myth around his persona as an actor in order to make himself interesting and noteworthy. I bet he was a good drinking companion but not an alcoholic one or needing someone to save him or put him in the right track. He was too well-constructed, polished and loved good life in order to lose his balance, get addicted or end up like a junkie. He wrote in his memoirs.'My family's correctness and high standards had made me want to be the bad boy always, convinced it made me more interesting and would bring me more attention'. I watched a video in you tube where Charmian Carr was talking about her book when she described how was her time at the Bristol Hotel where CP also stayed as well as other members of the crew. She writes that she was flirtatious towards him and he also was flirtatious towards her during those nights when he played piano and drank brandies. She comments that when the book was published CP telephoned her and told her that she should write that they had a mad passionate affair and she would sell more books, but she writes that she could not write something untrue (here after minute 13.00 www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN13c7i4RG8&list=PLGa_wkSAoEbqsbIWBCPQxuoSPiRPGpyAz&index=51&t=0s).
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 21, 2020 15:12:30 GMT
I imagine Elaine would have several volumes worth of tales to tell about him. I'd love to hear them all. I also believe that all this talking about his drinking habit is more a provoking stereotypical issue than a real one. Like the authors that in order to write, they got drunk, smoked heavily and yet they wrote masterpieces. Their passion became their work or their curse. He is far too intelligent and excellent stage actor to get drunk continuously and lose control of himself. His great shape, his control at stage, all these difficult plays he played at the theatre require a relatively strict life in order to face the challenges, he could not get drunk every day and then play at evening with the required focus and attention. I think he tries to shape a persona of his own (the heavily drinking man who played shakespeare) to address the media and his fans who imagine him as the attractive, provoking, good-looking bad boy! Bad boys are interesting and thought-provoking. He makes you wonder, in this scene is he drunk? Does he seem like drunk? You pay more attention to him, his gestures, his way of speaking whereas if you knew that no!!! he is not drunk at all, on the contrary he is absolutely sober, you would not notice him as much. Something similar takes place with the love theme between co-actors, if we know that they are really in love, our curiosity becomes greater and hotter, and for this reason I believe they all try to maintain such impressions. Think, would he sell the same tickets if he presented himself as a good boy? He likes being cynical, he appreciates greatly good humour, he is exquisitely well-bred, he came from an aristocratic family with a mother that adored art and culture, he wanted to be a pianist before becoming an actor because he thought it was easier and less lonely. If he didn't mention drinking and bad habits (like all male actors of that time showed bad habits), then he would be like a modern prince or a wanna-be-politician supporting moral values and ethical austerity, not an artist, a stage actor trying to provoke people and make them curious to come to theatre, pay money and see him. I mean he shapes a myth around his persona as an actor in order to make himself interesting and noteworthy. I bet he was a good drinking companion but not an alcoholic one or needing someone to save him or put him in the right track. He was too well-constructed, polished and loved good life in order to lose his balance, get addicted or end up like a junkie. He wrote in his memoirs.'My family's correctness and high standards had made me want to be the bad boy always, convinced it made me more interesting and would bring me more attention'. This is a fascinating perspective! I often wonder this when I hear about actors or writers who are putting out unbelievably talented work who claim to be hammered the whole time they worked on it. Maybe it is all just an act to be interesting and actually they were never drinkers (or drug addicts or whatever) at all.
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Wives
Apr 22, 2020 10:59:02 GMT
Post by utility_singer on Apr 22, 2020 10:59:02 GMT
I don't know. He regularly credits his wife Elaine with getting him off of booze and saving his life. And there is also that interview show where he is pondering life and acting and such and is clearly intoxicated.
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Wives
Apr 22, 2020 17:42:20 GMT
Post by emilia78 on Apr 22, 2020 17:42:20 GMT
I don't know. He regularly credits his wife Elaine with getting him off of booze and saving his life. And there is also that interview show where he is pondering life and acting and such and is clearly intoxicated. Do you think that any person can save another person from alcohol, or drugs?? it is a personal matter depending on one's character, resilience and wishes. I know that he gives her credit for stopping the bohemian life...what can I say?? haha it is a part of his myth?? He was in his 40s also when he married her. You know, being a restless youth at 20 is normal, but at 40, something is going wrong. He should settle down. In the interview you mention, his style maybe implies that he is drunk but what he says is very logical and well-structured. The image is everything for the actor, from A to Z. His way of living up until now at 90 shows his reality, this is his answer.
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Post by ro2022 on May 24, 2022 20:54:51 GMT
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