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Post by revcap on Oct 15, 2015 21:07:59 GMT
Somebody did a good job editing the video below.. I think this has been discussed here before but this video makes me want to bring it up again..When do you think is the exact moment they first fell in love with each other (or attracted to each other)? I'm not quite sure exactly when but I like the way they look at each other in the Edelweiss scene.. https://instagram.com/p/7EHokFLqpx
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 15, 2015 23:16:55 GMT
Lol, yes, you are going to find that we all have varying views on this topic, but most of us agree that it wasn't the pine cone or the whistle.
My personal take is that they started feeling an attraction to one another around the time of the puppet show and Edelweiss, but more of an infatuation and observance of the others qualities and not what you would call love yet.
I think the Captain knows he's in love with her when they dance, the way he looks at her speaks volumes and then how embarrassed he is at being caught by Elsa. Others think he doesn't realize it until later, but my opinion is he knows by the time the Laendler comes around, but he's not ready to accept because of society pressures and confusion over Elsa.
I think Maria had feelings for him by the Laendler, but she is confused by them and doesn't identify them as being love. I think she doesn't realize that she's in love with him until she runs back to the Abbey and has the conversation with the Reverend Mother.
Just my personal opinion.
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Post by revcap on Oct 16, 2015 13:00:33 GMT
Lol, yes, you are going to find that we all have varying views on this topic, but most of us agree that it wasn't the pine cone or the whistle. My personal take is that they started feeling an attraction to one another around the time of the puppet show and Edelweiss, but more of an infatuation and observance of the others qualities and not what you would call love yet. I think the Captain knows he's in love with her when they dance, the way he looks at her speaks volumes and then how embarrassed he is at being caught by Elsa. Others think he doesn't realize it until later, but my opinion is he knows by the time the Laendler comes around, but he's not ready to accept because of society pressures and confusion over Elsa. I think Maria had feelings for him by the Laendler, but she is confused by them and doesn't identify them as being love. I think she doesn't realize that she's in love with him until she runs back to the Abbey and has the conversation with the Reverend Mother. Just my personal opinion. Great summary of what has been discussed, plus your personal take
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 16, 2015 20:40:33 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Oct 17, 2015 2:27:55 GMT
The turning point is definitely the argument. I think by Edelweiss they know something is going on, by the Laendler they know what it is. He definitely does at least. I'm with clarinetjamie in that Maria's still a little unsure, but I think she has more of an idea than she did at Edelweiss. By the time she comes back they're both ready to admit it to each other and themselves. That's my thoughts, at least.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 17, 2015 3:52:22 GMT
Hmm, I think the turning point is the apology, in conjunction with the argument. If he hadn't apologized and asked her to stay, it would have been all over. His apology is a turning point for Georg, Maria has brought him to his knees.
I do think something was there with the pinecone/whistle, but it wasn't love----it was more of an intrigue, a curiosity because neither was what the other expected.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Oct 17, 2015 5:17:38 GMT
Agreed. Something happened with the pinecone moment. And it probably was more the apology than the argument itself, I just kind of consider them as one in this instance.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 17, 2015 7:22:07 GMT
Hmm, I think the turning point is the apology, in conjunction with the argument. If he hadn't apologized and asked her to stay, it would have been all over. His apology is a turning point for Georg, Maria has brought him to his knees. I do think something was there with the pinecone/whistle, but it wasn't love----it was more of an intrigue, a curiosity because neither was what the other expected. I like that explanation for the pine cone and whistle and yes I have to agree the turning point is the argument/apology.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 17, 2015 11:30:43 GMT
Agreed. Something happened with the pinecone moment. And it probably was more the apology than the argument itself, I just kind of consider them as one in this instance. True, they are part and parcel and it is tough to separate them. But if he hadn't humbled himself in time, she'd have been out the door. As for the pinecone, Maria was apparently the first governess not to tattle on every little trick the kids played. He knew what it was, there's a lilt in his voice when he asks her if she learned that cool move at the abbey. She'd already had the frog in her pocket, and didn't tell him that, either. So who exactly was this saucy, sassy, sexy little minx? Makes me wonder why he didn't cancel the trip to Vienna just to stick around and watch what was going to happen. BAM. Now I've got another story idea.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 17, 2015 16:15:51 GMT
Well, don't keep us waiting.......go forth and write it!
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Post by bluesatinsashes on Oct 17, 2015 16:44:54 GMT
Awesome analysis everyone! Will be back with mine when I get in my laptop. Just realized this--are pine cones really that painful when sat on? With a dress that thick in material, I don't think she could have felt anything. Maybe just a "crunch" sound.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 17, 2015 16:50:41 GMT
It looked fairly large and prickly. I think it was more the surprise of sitting on some unknown, bulky item than actual pain. After the frog in her pocket, it could have been anything.
And I started writing. I just need to finish Pain and Passion before I get going on this one.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 19, 2015 16:24:44 GMT
Oh yes, Pain and Passion is a great story. I've been reading that. Looking forward to the next chapter.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 19, 2015 16:44:36 GMT
Thanks :-)
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 19, 2015 23:43:21 GMT
I love every single theory about when they fell in love, even if they are different!
I'm also drawn to the late-bloomer idea. That Maria has a crush on him, but really doesn't admit to being in love with him until RM forces it out of her. That he finds her endearing and entertaining and maybe even enticing, but love? he's unsettled after she runs away but really not until she comes back.
I know there are arguments to be made on all sides, but I like this one because I think it's in chracter for him to be kind of stubborn and obtuse, and her to be clueless, and I like the idea that they come scarily close to missing out. I dunno.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 20, 2015 5:50:19 GMT
i'm firmly in the nothing until the puppet show camp. i think the pinecone/whistle idea is ridiculous. i don't think there was anything going on during the apology scene either, just sincere gratitude. a truce.
as for knowing it was love, i think maria was fighting it until RM told her it wasn't wrong to love a man if that was God's will. and i think georg didn't think it was love until she was gone and he realized he missed her. i might even accept that he knew he was in love with her during the laendler. i don't think this really was a difficult thing for him to admit to himself. i think the struggle was that maybe he didn't want to love anyone like that again, didn't think he could or should, and definitely not someone like maria who came from the convent and made it clear she wanted to be a nun from the start. elsa was his buffer, a way he could convince himself it didn't matter anyway.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 20, 2015 5:58:12 GMT
I love every single theory about when they fell in love, even if they are different! I'm also drawn to the late-bloomer idea. That Maria has a crush on him, but really doesn't admit to being in love with him until RM forces it out of her. That he finds her endearing and entertaining and maybe even enticing, but love? he's unsettled after she runs away but really not until she comes back. I know there are arguments to be made on all sides, but I like this one because I think it's in chracter for him to be kind of stubborn and obtuse, and her to be clueless, and I like the idea that they come scarily close to missing out. I dunno. Calling it a crush for her I think is a good term and I too like the suspense of having them almost miss out on it. It makes it much more special when they do come together and more intense.
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Post by callumrogers7 on Oct 21, 2015 21:37:12 GMT
Hmm, I think the turning point is the apology, in conjunction with the argument. If he hadn't apologized and asked her to stay, it would have been all over. His apology is a turning point for Georg, Maria has brought him to his knees. I do think something was there with the pinecone/whistle, but it wasn't love----it was more of an intrigue, a curiosity because neither was what the other expected. I pretty much agree with this. There were signs of attraction from the get-go for me....Captain vT making Maria take her hat off & twirl (doubt he'd have done that to any of the her predecessors), her appraising look on first seeing him, him gazing at her at the dinner table on the first night etc....but it's dubious as to whether there was love from the whistle/pine-cone moments. I think that the argument & consequent apology broke the barriers for both characters & then love probably developed as they finally stopped bickering & took the time to get to know each other better. It becomes more than just a physical attraction then & more a meeting of minds. My view is that Captain vT knows that he is falling for Maria by the puppet show/Edelweiss as he is an experienced guy & the Landler is an attempt at trying to gauge her reaction/feelings. I reckon both of them sort of have an inkling that they are drawn to each other, but it's just extenuating circumstances holding them back....for him, obviously it's that he is courting someone & for her, it's that she feels obligated to devote her life to God. An in-depth analysis I know, but hey, I had some time on my hands.
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Post by bluesatinsashes on Oct 21, 2015 23:00:47 GMT
Hmm, I think the turning point is the apology, in conjunction with the argument. If he hadn't apologized and asked her to stay, it would have been all over. His apology is a turning point for Georg, Maria has brought him to his knees. I do think something was there with the pinecone/whistle, but it wasn't love----it was more of an intrigue, a curiosity because neither was what the other expected. I pretty much agree with this. There were signs of attraction from the get-go for me.... Captain vT making Maria take her hat off & twirlChecking her out from the minute she enters the house! I agree with the apology being the turning point. He really softened up once he realized that he was wrong and that she was right. Perhaps the fact that she brought his family together again made him feel attracted to her. By the end of the puppet show, you can see some sort of mutual attraction brewing between Maria and Georg. I love how they are so oblivious to their flirting. Returning to the Captain making Maria take off her hat and twirl: Yes! I didn't realize that until you mentioned it. Very observant. Man, if I were Maria, it would be an honour for me to take off my hat and twirl for the Captain...
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 22, 2015 0:28:09 GMT
The twirl, and then the sharp intake of breath; "it's the dress", so he obviously approves of the person wearing it. ;-) As ugly as the dress is supposed to be, it clings to her hips and bottom like nobody's business.
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Post by bluesatinsashes on Oct 22, 2015 1:17:25 GMT
The twirl, and then the sharp intake of breath; "it's the dress", so he obviously approves of the person wearing it. ;-) As ugly as the dress is supposed to be, it clings to her hips and bottom like nobody's business. "It's the dress. We'll have to get you into a new one that properly shows off that fine-lookin' bod."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 2:58:11 GMT
The twirl, and then the sharp intake of breath; "it's the dress", so he obviously approves of the person wearing it. ;-) As ugly as the dress is supposed to be, it clings to her hips and bottom like nobody's business. "It's the dress. We'll have to get you into a new one that properly shows off that fine-lookin' bod." G: "Fraulein, where do you think you're going?" M: "Where do you think? Upstairs." G: <raises his eyebrows> "Upstairs?" M: <looking back behind her at him> "Yes. Aren't you coming?" G: "OK. Your room or mine?" and they both run upstairs so Maria can follow the Captains orders and take off that dress before she meets the children....
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 22, 2015 10:34:18 GMT
Are you sure she came from the abbey in that version? I'm thinking he misdialed and got the Bunny Ranch brothel.
But you know I love it. Haha---maybe a little cosplay after they've been married a few years? ;-)
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 22, 2015 23:06:33 GMT
If you look at his eyes, they sure aren't looking at her HAT!
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 23, 2015 5:21:04 GMT
If you look at his eyes, they sure aren't looking at her HAT! Oh no, he's looking at everything, but her hat.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 23, 2015 16:57:22 GMT
wow. this thread took a sharp turn.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT
we did get distracted, yes. it's hard to avoid the magnetic pull of that screencap, isn't it? Thanks bluesatinsashes because it did actually contribute to the discussion!. I'm not denying that he would have noticed her early on. But just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't he have thought that she was going to be going back to the Abbey? He asked for someone from the Abbey, remember? So I can't quite believe he'd let himself do more than silently admire her; he wouldn't have known anything else was possible. (Men do look I will admit that). After the whole Laendler/run away thing, he rather stubbornly, repeatedly, obtusely keeps asking her about it. He wants to make sure they're on the same page. I love something callumrogers7 said above that was a new idea for me - that in the Laendler he is testing the waters. I always thought he was just kind of having fun in the moment, a little recklessly/thoughtlessly. Yummy idea, callumrogers7.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 24, 2015 13:59:12 GMT
we did get distracted, yes. it's hard to avoid the magnetic pull of that screencap, isn't it? Thanks bluesatinsashes because it did actually contribute to the discussion!. I'm not denying that he would have noticed her early on. But just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't he have thought that she was going to be going back to the Abbey? He asked for someone from the Abbey, remember? So I can't quite believe he'd let himself do more than silently admire her; he wouldn't have known anything else was possible. (Men do look I will admit that). After the whole Laendler/run away thing, he rather stubbornly, repeatedly, obtusely keeps asking her about it. He wants to make sure they're on the same page. I love something callumrogers7 said above that was a new idea for me - that in the Laendler he is testing the waters. I always thought he was just kind of having fun in the moment, a little recklessly/thoughtlessly. Yummy idea, callumrogers7. Yes, I agree that at that moment in time he wouldn't be thinking ' oh, hello, I think I'll keep her forever', but he most certainly would notice, even if only because she didn't look very much like a governess----at least not what one would expect when calling an Abbey. Admire? He is a man, so yes. Silently? Until he can't let her go again. And I do like the idea that he was testing the waters during the Laendler, even if only because he'd noticed her crushing on him. I still maintain the lines about the pinecone and the whistle are just Monday morning quarterbacking; that was when they first noticed each other and that there was 'something there'----was it love? No, but the notion of both surprised by the other being so opposite of what they were expecting.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Oct 24, 2015 15:54:38 GMT
I think that as much as he was annoyed by her to start with, he was also surprised and curious about her at the same time. I think the pine cone incident amused him and judging by his reaction to her, I think he knew it was coming. He didn't seem surprised by it at all. I think he was annoyed with her, but also a bit amused and had his curiosity peaked as to who this woman was that would dare to challenge him right off the bat and protect his kids, that she had barely known for a few hours, from getting into trouble with him.
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Post by callumrogers7 on Oct 24, 2015 16:42:21 GMT
Thanks augiesannie & utility_singer - I was going to expand on that idea in a fanfiction, but feel free to explore it in your own ways if you want I've got more ideas than I know what to do with. Hehe! I may just get around to posting something soon, instead of merely threatening to do so. Anyway, when I watch Captain vT pulling his gloves on before asking Maria to dance, I always think he has a mischievous demeanour about him. I wonder what cheeky thoughts he is thinking, maybe something along the lines of....'Now, let's see if you can resist my infamous charms.' or 'Let's see how serious you are about becoming a nun, Fraulein Sex Kitten, uh Maria.' I'm opening a whole new can of worms now, I know. Lol Anymore for anymore. That's what I'd be thinking, but what is he thinking?
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