laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on Feb 19, 2021 18:45:12 GMT
In this particular situation, I don't think she'd go alone or with Max. I don't think she'd want Georg and Maria alone at the house without her there (maybe this is why she's looking for him when she finds him on the balcony? She is afraid he is off getting personal with the governess? and in a way he kind of is..) I vote for conceding gracefully while secretly fuming on any potential fancy plans. Yes, I think you're right. It begs an interesting (and off topic) question of when exactly Elsa knows she's lost and concedes... |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 20, 2021 0:51:06 GMT
From memory, she sees G watching M from the balcony when she first arrives there (he looks very guilty when he hears her say "Ah, there you are!)
That seems to me to be the moment she knows she has lost, although she doesn't concede till she responds to his "Elsa, it's no use", etc. (let's wipe away a tear for the brave gal).
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on Feb 20, 2021 2:30:09 GMT
From memory, she sees G watching M from the balcony when she first arrives there (he looks very guilty when he hears her say "Ah, there you are!) That seems to me to be the moment she knows she has lost, although she doesn't concede till she responds to his "Elsa, it's no use", etc. (let's wipe away a tear for the brave gal). Yes, I feel this way too. That moment she catches them staring at each other and goes "isn't it wonderful Georg?" is absolutely that moment for me, when she realizes her gamble has lost. The balcony scene was really just a stage to give them both a graceful exit... |
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 20, 2021 22:09:40 GMT
but then why does she go on about wedding presents and honeymoons? also (I said this in the other place) how about that look of almost pity that he gives Elsa on the steps after Maria runs off in tears?  |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 20, 2021 23:48:59 GMT
I suppose it is possible that it is now time for Elsa to suffer from an element of denial (after Maria may have done, when Elsa told her about G being in love with her). It wouldn't be easy for E to initiate the conversation about a break-up when she found G staring out at M. So maybe she denied it to herself, hence a last-ditch attempt to tempt him with her ritzy lifestyle in yachts, travel etc, getting more exotic as the time goes by with G not responding.
In the screencap above, that look to me says he feels guilty about hankering after Maria, and he realises he has been discourteous to his fiancee. So he gives her a reassuring look to tell her everything is alright...except it doesn't come out that way because he knows inside it isn't. Would love to have seen the intervening period until the balcony scene!
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Post by utility_singer on Feb 20, 2021 23:50:24 GMT
but then why does she go on about wedding presents and honeymoons? also (I said this in the other place) how about that look of almost pity that he gives Elsa on the steps after Maria runs off in tears? View AttachmentI think she's trying (hoping?) to see if he'll come back to her reality, and leave Maria to his dreams? |
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on Feb 22, 2021 18:39:17 GMT
My take on that balcony scene is her taking Georg to task on how it's not working out in Elsa-speak. She tells him the food is bad for her figure, she doesn't know what to get him for a present, doesn't know where to go for their honeymoon... what I really hear is that she isn't suited to the villa, doesn't see a place for them in the future, doesn't know what he needs... doesn't know him, really.
It's really quite heartbreaking because she's saying all this with absolutely zero confidence, like she's hoping he'll swoop in and correct her and tell her everything is going to be okay after all and he'll take care of it... but of course he doesn't.
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 22, 2021 22:13:30 GMT
you're right, laurynvi, I think I did! (and I love your translation there, and the idea that she wants him to contradict her but he doesn't). I agree with reverendcaptain except I think the smoking jacket is weird. Especially because a white tie? And yes, however I might have touched on it before, a cancelled evening out would make a great story! Another idea about the balcony scene that I like so much I've used it a few times (and sorry for destroying the purity of this thread) is that Maria, on her way to the gazebo, looks up and SEES the balcony scene from a distance, but from the way Elsa puts that proprietary hand on his arm, and the way he laughs at her jokes, Maria reads it wrong and the intimacy of it really hurts. |
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 22, 2021 22:25:46 GMT
I suppose it is possible that it is now time for Elsa to suffer from an element of denial (after Maria may have done, when Elsa told her about G being in love with her). It wouldn't be easy for E to initiate the conversation about a break-up when she found G staring out at M. So maybe she denied it to herself, hence a last-ditch attempt to tempt him with her ritzy lifestyle in yachts, travel etc, getting more exotic as the time goes by with G not responding. In the screencap above, that look to me says he feels guilty about hankering after Maria, and he realises he has been discourteous to his fiancee. So he gives her a reassuring look to tell her everything is alright...except it doesn't come out that way because he knows inside it isn't. Would love to have seen the intervening period until the balcony scene! that interpretation really works. Now explain this haughty demeanor:  |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 25, 2021 16:53:48 GMT
My take on that balcony scene is her taking Georg to task on how it's not working out in Elsa-speak. She tells him the food is bad for her figure, she doesn't know what to get him for a present, doesn't know where to go for their honeymoon... what I really hear is that she isn't suited to the villa, doesn't see a place for them in the future, doesn't know what he needs... doesn't know him, really. It's really quite heartbreaking because she's saying all this with absolutely zero confidence, like she's hoping he'll swoop in and correct her and tell her everything is going to be okay after all and he'll take care of it... but of course he doesn't. I've always thought that her balcony rambling was just her trying (and failing) to be amusing to him. You think she is subtly laying out all of the reasons why she is not suited to life at the villa/ with him? Interesting! And yes, it is heartbreaking how she is hoping that she has not lost him, but kind of sure that she has. "I know, I'm enough. haha." has kind of a "PLEASE TELL ME I'M ENOUGH, GEORG!" vibe behind it. Poor Elsa. Do you think she thought through what she was going to say when he (inevitably) broke up with her before he actually broke up with her? |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 25, 2021 17:01:07 GMT
I suppose it is possible that it is now time for Elsa to suffer from an element of denial (after Maria may have done, when Elsa told her about G being in love with her). It wouldn't be easy for E to initiate the conversation about a break-up when she found G staring out at M. So maybe she denied it to herself, hence a last-ditch attempt to tempt him with her ritzy lifestyle in yachts, travel etc, getting more exotic as the time goes by with G not responding. I agree, Elsa is totally in denial on the balcony. On the terrace during Maria's return too. In my mind she is thinking, I'll just pretend like Maria coming back is wonderful and everything will be alright. I'll just put on a stunning dress for dinner and everything will be alright. I'll just be witty and amusing and everything will be alright. I'll discuss wedding and honeymoon plans to remind him of how fabulous our lives will be and everything will be alright. I don't think she lets go of the denial until the end is officially upon her (Elsa, it's no use.) |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 25, 2021 17:04:25 GMT
I suppose it is possible that it is now time for Elsa to suffer from an element of denial (after Maria may have done, when Elsa told her about G being in love with her). It wouldn't be easy for E to initiate the conversation about a break-up when she found G staring out at M. So maybe she denied it to herself, hence a last-ditch attempt to tempt him with her ritzy lifestyle in yachts, travel etc, getting more exotic as the time goes by with G not responding. In the screencap above, that look to me says he feels guilty about hankering after Maria, and he realises he has been discourteous to his fiancee. So he gives her a reassuring look to tell her everything is alright...except it doesn't come out that way because he knows inside it isn't. Would love to have seen the intervening period until the balcony scene! that interpretation really works. Now explain this haughty demeanor: View AttachmentMaybe he has so many thoughts/emotions/questions rushing through him that he just fixes himself into what he thinks is a natural pleasant pose so that he looks normal to everyone on the outside but is free to freak out on the inside? |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 25, 2021 17:09:51 GMT
In the screencap above, that look to me says he feels guilty about hankering after Maria, and he realises he has been discourteous to his fiancee. So he gives her a reassuring look to tell her everything is alright...except it doesn't come out that way because he knows inside it isn't. Would love to have seen the intervening period until the balcony scene! I think he gives her a somewhat similar look after the puppet show. Like, "Oh, right, you're here too, I almost forgot.." |
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Post by utility_singer on Feb 26, 2021 23:53:14 GMT
My take on that balcony scene is her taking Georg to task on how it's not working out in Elsa-speak. She tells him the food is bad for her figure, she doesn't know what to get him for a present, doesn't know where to go for their honeymoon... what I really hear is that she isn't suited to the villa, doesn't see a place for them in the future, doesn't know what he needs... doesn't know him, really. It's really quite heartbreaking because she's saying all this with absolutely zero confidence, like she's hoping he'll swoop in and correct her and tell her everything is going to be okay after all and he'll take care of it... but of course he doesn't. That is brilliant, and I don't know why I ever thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense. As for his demeanor when Elsa comes out to see what's going on with Maria back---I don't know if it is haughty as much as kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Remember he still doesn't think Elsa knows how he feels about Maria. So he's trying to pretend he isn't feeling any of the feelings he is feeling. If that makes sense. |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 27, 2021 0:22:57 GMT
It makes lovely sense.
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on Feb 27, 2021 16:25:11 GMT
It really is quite unusual for Elsa to be so fretful, isn't it? Even if she were worried about something, she still comes across as breezy and confident.
I also agree with Georg looking guilty when Maria returns, definitely struggling to maintain his composure...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 27, 2021 21:29:08 GMT
It really is quite unusual for Elsa to be so fretful, isn't it? Even if she were worried about something, she still comes across as breezy and confident. I also agree with Georg looking guilty when Maria returns, definitely struggling to maintain his composure... This is interesting to analyze. When do we see Elsa look distressed? She is super confident on the car ride. She shows some vulnerability with "I am amusing, I suppose" and "Far too easily", though as you said, she handles this with stylish grace. She clearly notices the looks between G & M after the puppet show, during Edelweiss, after the Laendler, and across the crowded room after So Long Farewell, though she doesn't look outwardly upset, just taking notes. She looks furious during the dinner invite, but again, handles it in a socially acceptable way. Maybe this is the first time we see her look fretful! And the dialogue and body language in this scene give her good reason to be. |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 27, 2021 23:47:18 GMT
Maybe it is the first time in a long time that she has been out of control?
One thing about having a lot of money is that such people usually live very comfortable lives, and can afford to pay to make things work for them, or to pay other people to fix things for them. If she had been happily married to her wealthy husband, then she could have felt very much in control of her life, so this might be a very new and unwelcome departure for her, hence the distress. She certainly gives the impression when we first meet her of being supercool.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 2, 2021 15:21:38 GMT
Yes! I'm guessing that she hasn't had too many problems that couldn't be fixed with charm and/or money.
Do you think she had any other boyfriends after her husband died, but before Georg?
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Post by Chris&Byng on Mar 29, 2021 0:38:39 GMT
Just a follow-up to the "Hair Poll" and Georg's "She couldn't stay away" hair. Did anyone else notice the Austrian fly on Georg's head - just at the moment he turns to face Elsa on the steps (after she crashes the conversation between Maria and Georg upon her return) it takes off ! I had to laugh because I noticed it not long after the Democratic Convention when Michael Bloomberg was having issues with flies.
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 29, 2021 22:49:10 GMT
Just a follow-up to the "Hair Poll" and Georg's "She couldn't stay away" hair. Did anyone else notice the Austrian fly on Georg's head - just at the moment he turns to face Elsa on the steps (after she crashes the conversation between Maria and Georg upon her return) it takes off ! I had to laugh because I noticed it not long after the Democratic Convention when Michael Bloomberg was having issues with flies. OMIGOSH I was so excited to read this - I've never heard of such a thing - and I'm not quite seeing it yet but I'm going to keep looking! And maybe checking out screencaps... |
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Post by Chris&Byng on Mar 31, 2021 21:07:02 GMT
Just a follow-up to the "Hair Poll" and Georg's "She couldn't stay away" hair. Did anyone else notice the Austrian fly on Georg's head - just at the moment he turns to face Elsa on the steps (after she crashes the conversation between Maria and Georg upon her return) it takes off ! I had to laugh because I noticed it not long after the Democratic Convention when Michael Bloomberg was having issues with flies. OMIGOSH I was so excited to read this - I've never heard of such a thing - and I'm not quite seeing it yet but I'm going to keep looking! And maybe checking out screencaps... The version I noticed it in is the Apple TV version that I bought. Just as Georg turns his head to see Elsa, that is when it goes  |
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 31, 2021 21:45:17 GMT
OMIGOSH I was so excited to read this - I've never heard of such a thing - and I'm not quite seeing it yet but I'm going to keep looking! And maybe checking out screencaps... The version I noticed it in is the Apple TV version that I bought. Just as Georg turns his head to see Elsa, that is when it goes I didn't know there was a separate Apple TV version - I mean when I go to Apple TV I have TSOM purchased there but it's the same one I've always had. Will have to ponder. And rewatch! |
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on Apr 1, 2021 13:29:34 GMT
OMG! I see it! (I admit, it also gave me a good excuse to watch this scene about a dozen times...) I don't have the Apple TV version. It's the moment when Elsa says "Fraulein Maria", and Georg turns to look at her. Haha, good catch Chris&Byng! |
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 2, 2021 10:49:02 GMT
off to watch again, poor me.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 3, 2021 18:20:06 GMT
As for his outfit, I like the tails and medals at the party. He looks so handsome! And the Laendler is my favorite scene. Though, I can't say that there is any outfit that looks bad on him. The trachten suit, smoking jacket, gazebo suit, back from honeymoon suit, wedding uniform, I'm sure I'm missing some, but he looks incredible in every scene. This reminds me of a piece I read recently, when CP was quoted as having told a costumer who wasn't getting the 'bedraggled' look for his character quite right: "it's not the suit, it's me. It's the way I'm built, I can't look bad in a suit". |
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 3, 2021 22:26:27 GMT
I always think of him being quite well-built, but then I see him in TSOM and am amazed at how slender he is.
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 4, 2021 19:28:22 GMT
I always think of him being quite well-built, but then I see him in TSOM and am amazed at how slender he is. although he said he put on a lot of weight in Austria and they had to remake or let out his costumes. BTW utility_singer I never heard that quote before but that is so, so, so perfectly him! |
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 7, 2021 17:00:14 GMT
OMG! I see it! (I admit, it also gave me a good excuse to watch this scene about a dozen times...) I don't have the Apple TV version. It's the moment when Elsa says "Fraulein Maria", and Georg turns to look at her. Haha, good catch Chris&Byng ! One never needs an excuse to re-watch scenes over and over again??? but it does help to normalize things haha |
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Post by missisa on Sept 16, 2021 16:44:26 GMT
This is hilarious!! I would vote for all options except the hairspray from option 8 "I'm dumping you - hair" HAHAHAH sorry guys, I think the conversation changed the subject a bit in the last few posts, but I had to write it down  |
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