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Post by blairp on May 23, 2017 5:26:46 GMT
Most everyone who loves the movie enough to visit this board knows the difference between how the von Trapps fled in real life vs cinematically, what resources they had and how their future unfolded. But the movie family is different, and I'm interested in everyone's headcanons about it. Ignoring the fact that they literally hiked into Germany, I'm always struck by the fact that they don't have even one canteen between them -how did they even survive one small Alp? Do they get frostbite? Do they have passports? Do they feel safe just next door in Switzerland with its nominal "neutrality"? Has movie Georg planned ahead and moved money abroad? Do they make money singing? And, mindbendingly, is there a movie about their lives some 25 years later?
I'm picturing Louisa fuming in the cinema -"That's not how it happened at all!"
How does the movie future differ from the actual events in your head?
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Post by indigoblue on May 23, 2017 22:20:39 GMT
I think the film Georg was too intelligent and organised not to have moved money abroad when the Anschluss happened (assuming he could do this, of course).
I always imagined that he had relatives or friends in Switzerland who met them over the border and gave them shelter, and a place from where to start their next life, and I suppose I assumed that singing would be pretty necessary until they found some form of income (the problem with being a naval captain in a landlocked country like Switzerland is clear...)
Great thread, blairp!
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Post by lemacd on May 24, 2017 3:18:07 GMT
I think he moved money, enough for them to flee and get a new start, but they are not the same level wealth in America. I don't usually have them touring as a singing act when I think of post-movie life. In my headcanon, they go to England before they go to America. I don't know what to do with the mountain climbing stuff. If they do end up in Switzerland, they don't hang around long.
When I was a 12 year old writing SOM fanfiction many moons ago, my story was that they found a village in their hiking trip and a family willing to help them with shelter and food as they were carrying absolutely NOTHING with them as they were climbing that mountain. As Zeller messed up their plans, I blame him for that, not Captain or Maria.
Great topic.
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Post by indigoblue on May 24, 2017 23:24:48 GMT
Thinking about it, when they initially left the villa (before Zeller arrived), they were heading for the hills then. One would have expected someone like Georg and the mountain girl Maria to have had something in the way of food/blankets/better footwear with them in the car... perhaps it was all packed in the back. Of course, they then ended up in the caretaker's car, which would have had nothing.
Never really thought about it before...
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Post by lemacd on May 25, 2017 2:02:57 GMT
yes, but if they had left without Zeller stopping them, they were going to go by car. They didn't know the passages were closed until they got to the Abbey and the RM told them... their plan was still to go by car then. Their provisions might have been in the car. Their plan to climb was never plan A.
OK, I realize we basically said the same thing @indigoblue.
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Post by indigoblue on May 27, 2017 23:34:44 GMT
One thing that has always puzzled me is why they left the courtyard at the villa in darkness, without starting the car? The villa looks quite a way from another house, and they presumably would have started the engine up in the road anyhow.
Did they suspect there was a spy in their own house? How far were they going to push the car? All the way over the mountains??!!
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Post by lemacd on May 29, 2017 5:44:54 GMT
well, I think in a round about way, Maria explains that they didn't want Frau Schmidt or Franz to know they were leaving so they could honestly say they didn't know anything about it if they were questioned. This was pretty considerate when you think that it was Franz who alerted Zeller about what they were doing. Then again, maybe they knew Franz was a Nazi and therefore they were also trying to sneak by him.
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Post by eacampbell on Jun 26, 2017 17:27:36 GMT
well, I think in a round about way, Maria explains that they didn't want Frau Schmidt or Franz to know they were leaving so they could honestly say they didn't know anything about it if they were questioned. This was pretty considerate when you think that it was Franz who alerted Zeller about what they were doing. Then again, maybe they knew Franz was a Nazi and therefore they were also trying to sneak by him. I remember her explaining this reasoning to one of the children (Gretl? Marta?). However, I also think that the Captain of the movie probably at least suspected where Franz's new loyalties were, if not outright knew about him colluding with Zeller. I haven't really thought too much about it before, but I imagine it could add an interesting level of tension to the household - what are the Captain's suspicions? Does he know or just have a gut feeling? And, what is Franz's motivation? He's presumably been with the family a long time. What made him suddenly so willing to rat them out? Assuming that, even as detached as he's portrayed in the movies, he's watched the children grow up, watched the whole family grieve, watched them reunite and flourish under Maria's care. Is the relationship between Maria and the Captain any type of catalyst (is he really that much of a class snob)? This post has opened a whole new avenue of thought - although I think I've wandered off on a bit of a tangent...  As for the family's trek over the mountains...I'm ashamed to say I haven't put much thought into it (beyond - "Don't go that way, you'll end up in Germany!"). I agree that the only reason they seem to unprepared is they ended up fleeing in the caretaker's car. I guess I just assumed the weather was unseasonably warm and it was a short hike...?? At least they have the combination of the Captain's survival skills and Maria's familiarity with the local flora and fauna on their side. I'm thinking the Captain definitely had moved a good amount of money out of the country once the whole situation started brewing. Ideally, had nothing ever come of it (imagine that!), he'd have been able to move the money back without much fuss, but it seems like a fairly easy precaution for the organized, intelligent tactician we all agree the Captain is, to take. |
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 26, 2017 23:33:51 GMT
But in reality, I believe the real Georg actually moved money back into Austria to show support for the failing bank/country - not such a clever move for an organised, clever tactician, as actually the bank collapsed, leaving them in financial distress.
The Franz question you bring up is fascinating and requires some thought - (we love people wandering off at a tangent!)
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 27, 2017 16:06:31 GMT
But in reality, I believe the real Georg actually moved money back into Austria to show support for the failing bank/country - not such a clever move for an organised, clever tactician, as actually the bank collapsed, leaving them in financial distress. The Franz question you bring up is fascinating and requires some thought - (we love people wandering off at a tangent!) Yes, Georg did do that and it was why they started singing for money, and rented out several of the rooms in the villa. I think that for him, it was the most patriotic move he could think of but he lost that gamble. IIRC, the real life Franz assisted in the family leaving the country. They left on tour pretending they'd return, and he in some way concealed their real plan, though it's been a while since I read about it and don't recall the details. |
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Post by lemacd on Jun 28, 2017 4:38:56 GMT
well, I think in a round about way, Maria explains that they didn't want Frau Schmidt or Franz to know they were leaving so they could honestly say they didn't know anything about it if they were questioned. This was pretty considerate when you think that it was Franz who alerted Zeller about what they were doing. Then again, maybe they knew Franz was a Nazi and therefore they were also trying to sneak by him. I remember her explaining this reasoning to one of the children (Gretl? Marta?). However, I also think that the Captain of the movie probably at least suspected where Franz's new loyalties were, if not outright knew about him colluding with Zeller. I haven't really thought too much about it before, but I imagine it could add an interesting level of tension to the household - what are the Captain's suspicions? Does he know or just have a gut feeling? And, what is Franz's motivation? He's presumably been with the family a long time. What made him suddenly so willing to rat them out? Assuming that, even as detached as he's portrayed in the movies, he's watched the children grow up, watched the whole family grieve, watched them reunite and flourish under Maria's care. Is the relationship between Maria and the Captain any type of catalyst (is he really that much of a class snob)? This post has opened a whole new avenue of thought - although I think I've wandered off on a bit of a tangent... As for the family's trek over the mountains...I'm ashamed to say I haven't put much thought into it (beyond - "Don't go that way, you'll end up in Germany!"). I agree that the only reason they seem to unprepared is they ended up fleeing in the caretaker's car. I guess I just assumed the weather was unseasonably warm and it was a short hike...?? At least they have the combination of the Captain's survival skills and Maria's familiarity with the local flora and fauna on their side. I'm thinking the Captain definitely had moved a good amount of money out of the country once the whole situation started brewing. Ideally, had nothing ever come of it (imagine that!), he'd have been able to move the money back without much fuss, but it seems like a fairly easy precaution for the organized, intelligent tactician we all agree the Captain is, to take. also IRL Franz (named something else, though... Hans?) announced his allegiance to Germany to the Captain as soon as the Anschluss happened. He was fond of the family and the family was fond of him, but this put a bit of a strain (I think Georg couldn't quite trust him the same -- talking with the butler in the room, using the phone with him around, etc... or is this all in my fanfic mind? LOL time to reread the books again, I think). As utility said, he did assist in their escape, basically covering for them when asked where they went. Movie Franz, though... he looked too shifty to be an ally for the family. Do we ever really see him interact with Georg at all? I guess, the telegram, the moment during the party when Max tells him to set a place at dinner for Maria, but even then little to nothing is spoken between them. Huh... |
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Jun 28, 2017 7:28:20 GMT
Did I just completely miss that when I read the books?! I remember Hans (yes you were right lemacd) announcing his loyalties lay elsewhere, but I don't remember him assisting them leaving. Was this in one book I did read (I only read two), or have I been reading so much I forgot it? |
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 28, 2017 11:22:54 GMT
Did I just completely miss that when I read the books?! I remember Hans (yes you were right lemacd ) announcing his loyalties lay elsewhere, but I don't remember him assisting them leaving. Was this in one book I did read (I only read two), or have I been reading so much I forgot it? Yes it was Hans (thanks@lemacd). He didn't actively assist them, but definitely looked the other way and covered for them after the fact. |
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jun 28, 2017 18:33:53 GMT
I've always wondered how they survived that trip without water and food, lol. There are so many great fanfics out there though that attempt to explain all that.
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Post by lemacd on Jun 28, 2017 23:05:10 GMT
Did I just completely miss that when I read the books?! I remember Hans (yes you were right lemacd ) announcing his loyalties lay elsewhere, but I don't remember him assisting them leaving. Was this in one book I did read (I only read two), or have I been reading so much I forgot it? you know... I think I'm thinking about the German film, not the book. Like I said, it is all starting to blur, the movie, the books... and I'm old. And losing my mind. |
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jun 29, 2017 5:33:45 GMT
Yep, I sometimes forget and blend the movie with the play and fanfics. I've read so much and written so much that I often forget what's what.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 1, 2017 22:15:30 GMT
But going back to Franz and why he betrayed the family:
There is a dissertation somewhere on the web which talks about the politics of TSOM (!); it says that, after the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire around 1916, there were lots of sympathisers who still supported the right-wing cause - landowners like Georg, who often wore the military-style suits, or 'trachten', which we have come to know and love on Our Man.
I'm thinking that Franz could well have been a supporter of the (originally) Socialist Party which grew up after that, I believe in the 1920s,and which morphed into the Nazi party in the 1930s with Fascist leanings under Hitler. Maybe Franz was wedded to the Socialist cause after years of the Empire, and his betrayal was his way of ensuring the last elements of the Empire were wiped out.
Gruesome but truesome?
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Post by lemacd on Jul 2, 2017 1:50:36 GMT
That all sounds good to me, I mean, plausible and likely. Not good like, well... you know.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 21, 2023 18:53:44 GMT
Georg is a very intelligent person. He would never have earned the rank of captain without being organized, disciplined, and forward thinking. So, even though the anschluss was unthinkable to him, he had to know it was a real possibility, and would have planned accordingly. I picture him as having slowly moved funds out of Austria over the course of time, so as not to raise suspicion. I wonder if Switzerland was his original plan to escape. Did he have backup plans? All captains do, right? What would have been the other options? Escape through Italy (I think he was born there?)? Pretend to be taking a family trip to visit the children's grandparents in England, and then never go back? Board a train to Paris? He had to know they wouldn't let him just waltz out of the country if the anschluss happened. Though, I think he would see it as turning his back on Austria if he left before it happened. There's no good solution.
Since they had to go with the Switzerland plan, what do you think it entailed? Obviously it would have been easier to drive there and have some provisions in the car instead of hiking with nothing. I would image that they had to sleep on the mountain. It would have been too dark to hike unfamiliar terrain through the night, especially with children. Though, Zeller would surely be after them after he secured another car. If they drove up into the hills as far as they could, they still would probably not be safe in their car overnight, but how far could they realistically go? The car would have been cramped, but still warmer than sleeping outside, so maybe they did stay in the car but drove it off the road so it would be unseen? How long did they have to hike to get over the border? What did they eat? Then once in Switzerland, what was the plan? Had he already arranged a place for them to stay if worse came to worst, like it did? Feeding and housing 9 people is not an easy feat. I don't think they could just show up on some random villager's doorstep and ask for help. Maybe he had already sent money to someone to have things ready for him/them? Had he sent money to his other possible escape route partners too? I don't see them as staying in Switzerland long. It's too close. I like the idea that they flee to England, though maybe that's just because I've read so many fanfics where this happens.
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 23, 2023 22:53:24 GMT
Also, Switzerland has always been 'neutral', which I assume means that they won't rise up in arms against anyone....which actually means that Hitler could walk in there if he wished. I'm not surprised the von Trapps moved on quickly!
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