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Post by lemacd on Aug 28, 2017 4:46:23 GMT
I'm posting a bit early because tomorrow is going to be busy... Maria trusted the Mother Abbess to help her discern the will of God. She'd been taught to "do it wholeheartedly". In a way this should be an easy thing, just obey without question and believe that it won't fail. But Maria is not entirely sold on the idea. I'm not sure exactly what to discuss about it. Maybe we can discuss the challenge she was given, to go out into the world for a time, knowing what is expected, and find out if she can expect it of herself. What exactly was expected? Maria insists she can do it, but clearly she can't...
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 28, 2017 9:53:06 GMT
I don't know if this is properly discussing it, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the reality and the second was this scene in the musical. In reality, part of the reason she was sent off was she was getting headaches from the huge change in environment. I always wondered how sending her away was supposed to help with that (as in, why they ever brought it up.) To me it seemed a little 'You're getting headaches in the Abbey, so we'll send you out into the fresh air for a year and then return to a cloistered Abbey after which you will be unable to leave'. Always seemed a little off.
As for the musical, the line is '..you will return to us knowing what we expect of you, and that we do expect it.' That seems very repetitive, therefore pointless and has always weirded me out a bit.
So I guess this rambling of mine could relate back to this scene. I think it's almost as though she raced into the Abbey wanting to be a nun, but not wanting to be a nun. So not knowing what it entailed and, had she known, maybe wouldn't have chosen it so eagerly. So I think it's almost as if the Reverend Mother's saying 'here's your chance to work out what you want through experience'. Because she can say it all she wants, but she's still a 'problem' in their eyes. I expect that once the summer is over they expect her to return with a 'I've seen the world, and with evidence, say "I want to be a nun" or "I'm in love and am getting married."' (Okay, at this point I don't think anybody would guess the ending but...)
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Post by INeverExplainAnything on Aug 28, 2017 10:05:49 GMT
I don't know if this is properly discussing it, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the reality and the second was this scene in the musical. In reality, part of the reason she was sent off was she was getting headaches from the huge change in environment. I always wondered how sending her away was supposed to help with that (as in, why they ever brought it up.) To me it seemed a little 'You're getting headaches in the Abbey, so we'll send you out into the fresh air for a year and then return to a cloistered Abbey after which you will be unable to leave'. Always seemed a little off. As for the musical, the line is '..you will return to us knowing what we expect of you, and that we do expect it.' That seems very repetitive, therefore pointless and has always weirded me out a bit. So I guess this rambling of mine could relate back to this scene. I think it's almost as though she raced into the Abbey wanting to be a nun, but not wanting to be a nun. So not knowing what it entailed and, had she known, maybe wouldn't have chosen it so eagerly. So I think it's almost as if the Reverend Mother's saying 'here's your chance to work out what you want through experience'. Because she can say it all she wants, but she's still a 'problem' in their eyes. I expect that once the summer is over they expect her to return with a 'I've seen the world, and with evidence, say "I want to be a nun" or "I'm in love and am getting married."' (Okay, at this point I don't think anybody would guess the ending but...) Definitely second this. I always interpreted it as the Reverend Mother saying "I know you are devoted to God but that doesn't mean the life of a nun is for you." I mean, Maria is so free spirited - needing to be out in the mountains and seeing life in all it's glory. The RM is like "Girl, you can't be locked away, you can't even resist the temptation to climb a huge flipping mountain." So she sends Maria out in the world, to see what she might be missing or whatever, and hopefully realise the sisterhood is not for her. And of course it helps that it solves a little problem for the nuns.
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Post by lemacd on Aug 30, 2017 1:29:19 GMT
I think possibly RM was saying to her that she thinks she knows what she has to give up... worldly possessions, for example. She didn't really have any so that one was easy. Chastity? Also easy, romance was not on her radar. She could convince herself that she was giving up her whole heart to God when she never really knew what it could feel like to love and be loved in return. But with her little escapes, Maria didn't seem to realize that her choices, the when and where of enjoying even the simple things like fresh air and God's creation, would no longer be her own. In other words, the sacrifices required of her were never really tested. Sending her up with the von Trapps was going to test those things the vows of poverty, chastity and silence didn't explicitly state.
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 4, 2017 17:03:43 GMT
Does RM ever consider the possibility of a romance with the fine brave Captain Von Trapp? She certainly very quickly knows which "him" Maria is talking about when she says she can't face "him." It never crosses RM's mind that it might be, I don't know, a telegram boy or a butler?
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 4, 2017 23:01:10 GMT
Haha! Somehow I think the good Reverend Mother is only too aware of the Captain's charms...now THERE's an interesting backstory to explore!
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Post by lemacd on Sept 5, 2017 1:11:59 GMT
maybe maria has been calling out in her sleep...
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Post by lemacd on Sept 5, 2017 1:14:17 GMT
but actually, doesn't maria say she can't face him again... and the RM either asks if it is the Captain or maybe the stress of the word "him" makes her understand.
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Post by absurdlittlebird on Sept 5, 2017 12:21:54 GMT
I think the RM is incredibly wise and as you've all pointed out could easily see that Maria's nature was not well suited to life at the abbey. I think because she was so young the RM had probably been praying and looking for an answer to the "problem" of Maria. Maria's devotion and faith is sincere, so I believe the RM would not have wanted to discourage that. But I also think she wanted an opportunity to arise that would allow her to have some real life experience so that she was fully aware of the life she was choosing.
So when the Captain's request arrived, she no doubt saw it as divine intervention to this problem. I'm not sure I see RM sending her there as a sort of matchmaker, I just genuinely think that she could see that Maria possessed skills that would make her a very good governess and wanted to give her an opportunity to experience that before deciding to take her vows. I think she knew of the Captain as a fine, honourable man and trusted that he would keep her safe and happy under the protection of his household and that this was part of the reason why she felt comfortable enough to send her there.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2020 23:51:32 GMT
Why is RM's office so dark? I thought in this scene it might be nighttime, but when Maria is getting convinced to go back it is clearly daytime, and her office is still super dark.
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Post by emilia78 on Apr 27, 2020 18:49:51 GMT
Why is RM's office so dark? I thought in this scene it might be nighttime, but when Maria is getting convinced to go back it is clearly daytime, and her office is still super dark. Maybe there is no electricity in there, except the candle lights creating the perfect environment for meditation and praying. And the windows, if any, are closed to avoid any noise that may disrupt the silence.
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Post by emilia78 on Apr 27, 2020 19:03:45 GMT
Does RM ever consider the possibility of a romance with the fine brave Captain Von Trapp? She certainly very quickly knows which "him" Maria is talking about when she says she can't face "him." It never crosses RM's mind that it might be, I don't know, a telegram boy or a butler? If it was the butler for instance or the postman or any other male worker at the villa, would Maria have left the house as she left in the middle of the night, upset and overwhelmed? or she would have handled it differently?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 28, 2020 14:31:46 GMT
Does RM ever consider the possibility of a romance with the fine brave Captain Von Trapp? She certainly very quickly knows which "him" Maria is talking about when she says she can't face "him." It never crosses RM's mind that it might be, I don't know, a telegram boy or a butler? If it was the butler for instance or the postman or any other male worker at the villa, would Maria have left the house as she left in the middle of the night, upset and overwhelmed? or she would have handled it differently? RM probably does guess that "him" is the captain by Maria's decision to leave in the middle of the night. She does ask "Captain Von Trapp?" just to be sure though. So, Maria could have replied with "No, it's the butler Franz." or whoever it was at this point, but she just stayed silent, which confirmed RM's suspicions that the "him" was the captain and the reason was heartache.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 28, 2020 14:36:40 GMT
Why is RM's office so dark? I thought in this scene it might be nighttime, but when Maria is getting convinced to go back it is clearly daytime, and her office is still super dark. Maybe there is no electricity in there, except the candle lights creating the perfect environment for meditation and praying. And the windows, if any, are closed to avoid any noise that may disrupt the silence. It looks like there are electric lamps in there, just not many. You are probably right that this is done to communicate that this is a place of quiet reverence. Still, it makes it a little hard to see what is happening sometimes. Or maybe I am just being nosy and want to see what items RM has on her tables and can't get a clear look at them.
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Post by indigoblue on May 12, 2020 23:40:32 GMT
I wonder whether it is a bit of cinematography, meaning that, as you can see in the screencap above, the light and dark in the room compliments the nuns'black and white habits, making the colour scheme here a sharp contrast to the technicolor of the mountain scenes (at the beginning) and Maria's return (after this).
Looking through the film a while back made me very aware of the use of colour to signify all sorts of things - we know of Maria's clothing colours changing from black to brighter colours to reveal her maturation, but I also noticed that Elsa's clothes changed in the opposite way, as she went from bright colours when she was a 'peacock' to that mauve dress when she clearly realised that her engagement was a sham.
How do Georg's clothes change throughout the film?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 23:48:40 GMT
I wonder whether it is a bit of cinematography, meaning that, as you can see in the screencap above, the light and dark in the room compliments the nuns'black and white habits, making the colour scheme here a sharp contrast to the technicolor of the mountain scenes (at the beginning) and Maria's return (after this). Looking through the film a while back made me very aware of the use of colour to signify all sorts of things - we know of Maria's clothing colours changing from black to brighter colours to reveal her maturation, but I also noticed that Elsa's clothes changed in the opposite way, as she went from bright colours when she was a 'peacock' to that mauve dress when she clearly realised that her engagement was a sham. How do Georg's clothes change throughout the film? I think that his clothes get lighter and less formal. At the beginning of the film, his suit is black and very formal (see pictures), but during the closing scene/music festival, his suit is light gray. He appears to be wearing some kind of pin on his suit in the first picture.
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Post by emilia78 on May 13, 2020 0:09:22 GMT
I also noticed that Elsa's clothes changed in the opposite way, as she went from bright colours when she was a 'peacock' to that mauve dress when she clearly realised that her engagement was a sham. Elsa' s dress was red, not purple. I always thought it contrasted the white fluffy gown of the party.
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Post by indigoblue on May 15, 2020 0:00:53 GMT
I was thinking of the day dress she wore on the terrace with Georg when Maria returned from the Abbey; but you are right, her last 'blast' was that drop-dead red stunner on the balcony.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 21, 2020 16:10:15 GMT
When do you think RM got the letter (or phone call?) from the captain asking for a governess? Was it the morning Maria was on the mountain and she volunteered Maria that same evening, or has she been thinking about this for a few days?
Maria leaves the abbey the next afternoon, so this is not much time to get used to the idea of being somewhere completely new for the next few months. Though, she obviously had very little packing to do. It had to be overwhelming for her on a number of levels.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 31, 2020 23:10:27 GMT
I always felt that he had phoned a few days before (maybe when he realised he would be in Vienna for so long and the children needed entertaining...or perhaps straight after Fraulein Josephine left?)
So I think the RM had been mulling it over for days when Maria's unpermitted absence on the mountain became the last straw, and off she was sent.
I wonder whether she would have sent someone else if Maria hadn't gone AWOL? Or no-one? What would the Capt do then?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 4, 2020 20:22:32 GMT
We don't know anything about any of the other postulants, right? I wonder if anyone else was even in the running in RM's mind. I am assuming many of them would have been rule followers and been scared off by the children just like every other available governess in Salzburg had been.
RM probably felt obligated to help (being a religious person and all). She likely felt that she HAD to send someone.
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 15, 2020 23:17:05 GMT
Do you think the last governess had left just before Maria? I ask because if not, then Georg had left it to the last moment to get another one, before he left for Vienna. Not very organised for a military man.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 19, 2020 16:11:00 GMT
Good question. What do you think about this sequence of events? The latest governess leaves after 2 hours, Georg calls the abbey that same day, RM is deciding how to sign Maria up for the job, the next day Maria ditches church for the mountains and provides the perfect excuse to send her out to learn what to expect of herself, she leaves the next afternoon. With this timeline, the Von Trapps are only without a governess for 48 hours. Georg was planning to leave for Vienna but got held up when "governess 2 hours" left. Elsa sends a telegram to ask Georg to come visit as soon as he has his staffing situation figured out, which conveniently arrives the same evening as the new governess. He is then free to announce that he is leaving for Vienna. Thoughts??
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 28, 2020 22:02:28 GMT
Yes, that sounds about right. Frau Schmidt seems fairly phlegmatic about it, sounds as though this has happened SO many times before...also the fact that the Captain has ordered several bolts of fabric for the new governess doesn't seem to wrongfoot the housekeeper!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 2, 2020 15:14:09 GMT
I wonder if he has disapproved of his governess's attire before Maria? Fraulein Helga maybe had to make her own clothes too?
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 5, 2020 22:00:56 GMT
Yes, he seems to know exactly what to do to get new fabric - how many men would know that?! Not my husband! I suspect he has been there before...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 10, 2020 14:11:57 GMT
Maybe this explains why there are dresses made of fabric that we don't see Frau Schmidt give Maria. There is extra material left over from other governesses who made their own dresses that she uses to add to her own wardrobe. Except for the blue dress of course. "Blue Enhanced" tells us where that one came from.
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Post by scullypout on Sept 22, 2020 0:12:04 GMT
If it was the butler for instance or the postman or any other male worker at the villa, would Maria have left the house as she left in the middle of the night, upset and overwhelmed? or she would have handled it differently? RM probably does guess that "him" is the captain by Maria's decision to leave in the middle of the night. She does ask "Captain Von Trapp?" just to be sure though. So, Maria could have replied with "No, it's the butler Franz." or whoever it was at this point, but she just stayed silent, which confirmed RM's suspicions that the "him" was the captain and the reason was heartache. I definitely think it’s the whole ‘doing a runner in the middle of the night’ bit that gave it away that ‘him’ is CvT. I think the RM definitely sent Maria away to get some life experience (which I’ll expand on in a separate comment), but I definitely think that the RM sent M to the villa knowing full well how protective CvT is of his children (and most likely also his staff). I imagine the RM thought that CvT would shut down any possibility of advances towards M from other men, and, if they did occur, it would be dealt with in a way that wouldn’t have M running away at 2am.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 1, 2020 16:48:19 GMT
2 questions about this scene. 1. Who is the picture of hanging above the crucifix? Mary? Is anyone familiar with this picture? 2. Do you think Maria thinks that RM is sending her away forever before she explains the governess plan? Is her desperate reaction to the suggestion because she thought she was getting kicked out of the abbey forever with no where to go? Attachments:
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 28, 2022 20:15:24 GMT
Completely random comment: I think the pattern of the wallpaper in RM's office looks kind of like the drapes! This must have been in style at the time? Attachments:
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