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Post by lemacd on Sept 26, 2017 13:35:25 GMT
 We already know that Maria has a problem with going where she isn't supposed to and staying put when she's told. Here she wanders into the ballroom. There is a child-like precociousness to her that is endearing. Or is it? During the song, "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria?", a lot of words are thrown about to describe her. The last word on the matter is simply that "she's a girl". I can see how this might prevent her from being a good nun but how in the world does this make her a good governess? What is the RM thinking?? |
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Post by absurdlittlebird on Sept 27, 2017 3:03:11 GMT
I think the Reverend Mother was thinking two things:
a) That the Captain was in desperate need of some fresh air and vitality back in his home. Clearly his plan of using a long line of governess's, all who were relatively the same (well trained, focused on discipline and strictly following orders), hadn't been successful, so what wisdom was there in sending him her best teacher in the abbey? I'm sure there certainly would have been older nuns with teaching experience who would have been more "suitable" as a governess, but Georg's decision to turn to the abbey for help was an act of desperation of sorts. I think the Reverend Mother's wisdom allowed her to see what the Captain really needed (someone who would help guide his children with great warmth and love; being firm but kind) despite his inability to see it for himself.
b) As someone who is personally only one month away from completing a teaching degree, who began the course still flipping very much between acting as a"girl"/child and an adult, I can assure you that once you are placed as the person completely responsible for the lives of children you are naturally forced quite quickly into the role of the adult, whether you want to be or not. Sure you can still have fun with the children and experience life through their eyes, but children are always looking for the reassurance of an authority figure and you cannot help but fill that role. It can't just sit there as an open vacuum. The weight of responsiblity that comes with looking after children is enormous, they are so vulnerable in so many ways. You find yourself stepping up and surprising yourself with just how quickly you can sink into that adult role.
This was the case for Maria. She came to the abbey I believe as a teenager or a very young adult, however as a postulant she was placed under the authority and care of more senior sisters and the Reverend Mother. In that context there was little opportunity for her to really grow out of being a "girl", when she had such little to be responsible for (this is my opinion, feel free to disagree). Also, considering her personality, I think the pace of life in the abbey and the many rules which regulated it almost fostered her repeated rebellion and childish behaviour.
Sending her to be the governess to the Captain's children forced her for the first time in her life to really have to quickly grow up. Not that she ever realised that's what she was doing. But she simply couldn't fulfil her role in that house properly (even in her effervescent style of chaos) without growing up and stepping into the role of the adult. This too was a part of the Reverend Mother's wisdom I believe. She saw it as a perfect opportunity for Maria to experience life, grow and mature, all of which would hopefully help her to be more settled in her need to take the rules and way of life in the abbey more seriously upon her return or to show her that life at the abbey was not for her but that she had skills as an adult to survive in the world on her own path.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Sept 27, 2017 3:10:13 GMT
Well I think it’s endearing. Maybe. I definitely do not feel negative in any way towards it.
As far as the song goes, being the final line, I think it's the Reverend Mother's way of saying "Alright, that's enough. She may be all of those things and get on our nerves, but she's still a human with feelings."
I think the Reverend Mother was thinking that, unlike everyone else, Maria is unaware of how unsuited she is to be a nun. And that she hasn’t really opened her mind to other options or had many other experiences. We know she likes children, so she’s somewhat qualified for the job, and can help them. And in doing so and going out into the world, help herself.
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Post by lemacd on Sept 27, 2017 4:43:17 GMT
I don't think the RM was thinking about the Captain's needs beyond providing him with a governess. I don't think she was thinking about his need for vitality or someone different at all. I don't think that would have entered into her thoughts much at all. But for the sake of this discussion, let's just say she did.
And yes, the RM was saying that Maria is just being Maria and they all needed to quit being so snarky about her. But she isn't disagreeing with their assessment of her either. Calling her a "girl" is both a defense of her undisciplined behavior and an explanation for the cause of it. So while we can maybe allow that the RM thought that the Captain might need someone unorthodox and different from the long line that he has employed to no success, she would still need to select someone with discipline.
Of course being undisciplined is not synonymous with irresponsible. I'm sure the RM knew that Maria was responsible and wouldn't let the children come to harm. I am quite sure the RM also knew that Maria knew how to answer their questions appropriately. I'm sure that she was certain Maria knew not to let the children play with matches or juggle knives or not stand up in a boat all at the same time... oh, wait. But she had to wonder if Maria would know to have the children down to breakfast on time, if Maria would wander away from the villa as often as she did the Abbey... if she would forget to mind her place and royally tick off the other servants and most importantly her employer. I know how young people can bear responsibility. I'm not referring to that here.
The RM did have an ulterior motive for sending Maria, but what good would it do for Maria to learn what to expect of herself/find her life/climb every mountain/find God's open windows/whatever if she gets fired three minutes after she gets there? She was banking on Capt. vT's desperation and hoping that Maria's spirit would overcome her less shining moments. The list of infractions on just her first day should have got her dismissed. The RM took a huge risk.
I will be honest, Maria in the ballroom makes me twitch because she was told to wait and I have always been told it's rude to wander around people's homes when they haven't invited you to do so. I'm a rule follower. This is how my world makes sense. It's just me so please don't jump all over for me for that.
So this is where I wait for everyone to hate what I just wrote...
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Post by absurdlittlebird on Sept 27, 2017 5:06:11 GMT
No hate at all lemacd!! I love these discussions and to be honest I've read a lot of fanfiction lately so my interpretation of the RM's motivations may be coloured by that more than I realise. But as you said in your post, the Captain's desperation is something obvious to us as the viewers and evidently to the RM also. I think that is a fact we can agree on. So that does bring into question what would possess her to send someone like to Maria to his home, knowing very well that she was not the most obvious choice at her disposal. Yes they needed an answer to the Maria problem, but it would have been against the RM's core values to use this opportunity selfishly, purely as a means to work out the problem of Maria. The RM would have been very much concerned with ensuring that she did her best to help the Captain's situation. And as I just said before, with so many options of people to chose from to send to him, the question "why Maria" is a truly interesting one. Because I believe it simply had to be more than trying to just sort out their Maria problem. She had to have seen something that Maria uniquely could have offered the family. This is why I think to some degree she must have seen that perhaps the Captain needed something different than what he was expecting. When Maria asks why the Captain has had such a difficult time keeping a governess, the RM says "the Lord will show you in His own good time". So clearly the RM is very aware of the situation in the von Trapp home. Perhaps she simply thought that Maria's resilience and youth would help her to deal with the children longer than others before her, but I think it's more than that. She was an incredibly wise woman and I think she could probably understand what the children's needs were from all the way inside the abbey; they needed attention, someone to genuinely care for them and listen to them. And I feel she felt Maria would have been very much up to that task. |
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Post by absurdlittlebird on Sept 27, 2017 5:10:39 GMT
Also with the ballroom/wandering into it despite being told to stay put; I like you, have been taught that that's quite rude and I'm terrified of getting told off by people so I never would have done such a thing.
But I think for Maria, she is just so overwhelmed by the beauty of the place and by her curiosity. I think she also genuinely wouldn't really see the harm in poking her head inside, I mean yes she wasn't respecting their privacy and obeying the rules but she physically hadn't done anything. She was just looking (well... and beginning to waltz with herself, but there was no danger of her ruining anything). So she probably felt that her actions were harmless.
Again, not saying I agree but I can see her viewing it that way.
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 28, 2017 0:05:32 GMT
My cents worth:
I think the RM's "She's a girl" means she is very young,and not yet a woman; as such:
I think the RM wanted Maria to have another experience of the outside world before committing to the Abbey as she wasn't convinced she was good nun material
Maybe the RM thought Maria would learn some discipline herself in the Captain's house (another reason for sending her)
I think (as AbsurdLittleBird said), Maria grew up fast at the villa and realised that a world without children no longer appealed to her (and decided to take on their father in the process! Tough!)
Maria does know she shouldn't 'trespass' into other rooms, because as soon as the Captain makes his entrance, she scuttles off back to the hall.
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Post by lemacd on Sept 28, 2017 1:30:41 GMT
indigoblue those are good points. And I think you said what I was trying to express, that RM wasn't thinking about the Capt's needs much at all, only Maria's (and theirs, as it was said already, they got rid of their "problem"). She was, though, taking a leap of faith because if Maria didn't learn discipline quickly, she would be sent back sooner than later.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 1, 2017 23:02:58 GMT
I personally never thought the RM knew that much about the Captain's situation, but this dialogue has made me reflect on the moment when she's told Maria that he's had quite a bit of business keeping a governess.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 1, 2017 23:10:02 GMT
Hmm - how would she know that? Were all the previous governess from the Abbey, or was Maria the first one? If the latter, then the RM must have heard some gossip about him being unable to keep a governess long. So why did she still send Maria there? If Fraulein Josephine was anything to go by, Maria would be back in hours!
How would that have got them anywhere?
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Post by absurdlittlebird on Oct 2, 2017 7:52:26 GMT
Hmm - how would she know that? Were all the previous governess from the Abbey, or was Maria the first one? If the latter, then the RM must have heard some gossip about him being unable to keep a governess long. So why did she still send Maria there? If Fraulein Josephine was anything to go by, Maria would be back in hours! How would that have got them anywhere? I doubt they were all from the abbey, it seems an odd place for such a wealthy aristocrat to turn to get a governess. That's what makes the question of why Maria even more captivating. Because I just cannot for the life of me believe that the Reverend Mother would send Maria to the Captain in good conscience unless she truly believed it was helping him in some way just as much as it helped herself. |
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 22, 2017 0:54:34 GMT
It was likely in a letter that he detailed his difficulties in keeping a governess in his employ.
As far as "why Maria", I like to think that the Rev. Mother did have a great affection for Maria, in spite of (or perhaps because of?) her free spiritedness. This is one of the things that is better fleshed out in the stage version. Anyway, because of this affection, I imagine that Maria was prayed about often and strongly, and that for whatever reason, RM received the answer in the Captains' request. It gave Maria a chance to experience things outside the abbey (and then perhaps answer the "What do we do with her question" on its own, and it helped the von Trapps for however long she would stay.
Problem solved :-D
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 15, 2020 15:25:01 GMT
Would you have gone exploring in a house you had never been in? Especially when you had been told to wait in the foyer, and you knew that your new employer would be looking for your momentarily. I just can't imagine doing this! What if she had walked in on someone hosting a gathering or any other number of scenarios where she would have had to explain why she was poking her head in where it didn't belong.
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 15, 2020 22:53:43 GMT
Maybe she has some Attention Deficit Disorder, and forgot straightaway that she had been told to wait? I love the way she squints through the crack in the door, as though something had caught her interest, and away she goes!
The ADD would also explain why her behaviour at the Abbey was unpredictable - a will o' the wisp...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 23:32:01 GMT
It could have just been her inquisitive nature, but as Indigoblue said, it could have been a little bit of ADD too.
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Post by riana11 on Jun 16, 2020 14:42:35 GMT
I agree with the above replies and also think that she was in total awe of this home and it was the first time in her life she had been in a place so elegant, she probably couldn't help herself. I surely wouldn't have the guts to do that, but Maria is impulsive and she seems to act first and think later.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 15, 2021 21:32:18 GMT
What do you think Georg was doing when Maria arrived? It looks like Franz goes into the sitting room (where the children sing to Elsa later) after he tells Maria to wait. We probably would have heard him tell Georg that the governess was there if he was just sitting in this room right? Maybe Franz went to through the sitting room and told Frau Schmidt that the governess was there so that she could have a maid make sure Maria's bedroom was ready, and then walked to Georg's study to get him?
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Post by indigoblue on May 19, 2021 22:44:34 GMT
That sounds likely. The only other room accessible through the sitting room is the dining room, but it seems unlikely that Georg would be in there, his study would be much more of a possibility.
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Post by missisa on Sept 18, 2021 21:15:19 GMT
Hi everyone! I have a few questions. Why does everybody talk about "Georg's study"? (I've read many fanfics where the study is an interesting corner for obvious reasons) but do they really mention it in the movie? Excuse me if they did, since English is not my mother language and although I have seen it thousands of times I may have misheard it 😅 My other question was if anyone had ever found a floor plan of TSOM house and then I just have found this thread!!! sound-of-music-fics.freeforums.net/thread/157My God what a great map you made @indigoblue 🤩 |
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 19, 2021 22:46:54 GMT
Glad you liked the Floor Plans, Missisa! I enjoyed putting them together.
Georg's study: this has arisen partly out of necessity because he sort of needs somewhere to work and to be alone (as much in fiction as in fact). But also, in the scene in the hall when they return from their honeymoon, after he has refused to allow Max to enter the kids to sing at the festival, Georg turns away and walks towards a door which is unidentified. It would make sense for this to be his study.
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