|
Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2020 18:32:52 GMT
Have you noticed when he is circling her, he doesn't look her in the eye? Is this showing that he is uncomfortable speaking about his late wife and subconsciously embarrassed to admit how many governesses his children have run off? He only looks at her when she asks what is wrong with the children. Then he looks at her directly and is very confrontational about how it is all the previous governess's fault. I think he is trying to be intimidating, yes, but also maybe using this circling technique to avoid eye contact when speaking about things he doesn't want to talk about.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on May 14, 2020 12:15:01 GMT
Did all nuns have to wear a full habit in these days? When he's starting in on his speech, he says "Now, fraulein...." and makes a hand gesture to show that he is waiting for her to state her name. If she came from the abbey, shouldn't he have said "Now, sister...."? or is it obvious that she is not a nun because of her clothing?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on May 23, 2020 23:16:43 GMT
I think he uses Fraulein (young woman) as a way of belittling her, together with the fact he couldn't recall her name. That, combined with his walking around her is very unnerving!
If he called her Sister, it infers a degree of respect for her position, which might mean he can't reprimand her so easily. Except he probably knows she isn't a proper nun yet, so she probably shouldn't be called Sister yet either.
Thankfully, Maria is not cowed by all this (which I am sure is part of the secret of her success)
|
|
|
Post by chezlui on Jun 7, 2020 20:19:49 GMT
In German using “Fräulein” (its English equivalent being “Miss”) is only belittling when you look at it with eyes from 2020. It was quite common to use it, specially at this point. Normally with a last name, though. Never the first. I had Fräulein Meier as a Kindergarten teacher and Fräulein Hartmann in 1st grade (in 1986, I’m not that old).
Nowadays, o lot old people use it. Because (just like in English) you become a Frau once your married and lose your virginity. Since it is 2020, it’s nobody’s business when or where it why a woman uses her virginity and it’s not up to you to assume.
Ps: I call my sister, daughter or even my grandma “Fräulein” at times. “Now look here, Fräulein, that’s not how we do it.”
|
|
MeltIntoSpring
Junior Member
"Enchanting little ritual. Something you learned at the.. Abbey?"
Posts: 75
|
Post by MeltIntoSpring on Jun 10, 2020 4:20:13 GMT
I don't think she meant an actual dance in the 'steps set to music' way; but the 'a successive group of rhythmical steps or bodily motions' way. Also, the courtship or mating rituals of animals are called 'dances'. While it can intimidating, I think here Wise uses it more as a bit of foreshadowing for the coming scene during the Laendler; when HE stands in place observing her while she circles him. I can definitely agree with this regarding the Ländler, as Maria is the one who looks everywhere around her (her surroundings, down at her feet) during the dance but doesn't make eye contact with him until the end, yet he is fixated on her the entire time. As for her dresses, in the scene where Frau Schmidt hands her the materials, the fabric for the blue dress is at the very top I believe.
|
|
|
Post by juupke on Jun 10, 2020 16:56:44 GMT
It's either dancing or 'circling his prey' so to speak... in the most delicious way possible?!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on May 6, 2021 23:00:08 GMT
Why does he ask her to take her hat off? In some places it is rude to wear your hat inside, maybe he is reminding her of her manners? He didn't actually think the dress would look better with the hat off right? On a side note, augiesannie isn't one of your fanfiction names hatoff? Is this one of your favorite scenes?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on May 8, 2021 23:06:03 GMT
By reminding her that it is good manners to take her hat off, he gets a chance to assert his authority over her. Again.
Probably also comes as part of his military training and protocol, etc, but it would make her feel vulnerable to take her hat off.
(I have said before, that when our kids used to watch TSOM when they were small, as soon as they heard him say "Hat off", they would chant "Dress off!"
- Aren't kids awful?!)
|
|
|
Post by Chris&Byng on May 9, 2021 1:53:53 GMT
It struck me as I was wading through caps that they kind of do a little dance here. I mean, do you see what I mean? Body language, man... Also, the second cap... finger wiggles. We see Captain vT do this a couple times throughout the film. I'm not as familiar with CP's filmography, especially in the early years, so maybe this is a CP thing or maybe just a very Captain-y thing to do. Discuss. Lastly... what's in her bag? Surely she didn't expect they would give her material to make some clothes. Was there another uglier dress waiting its turn in rotation? Weird thoughts. Salvage this post. It is more like a thorough examination of her I would say,not a dance. He examines her in detail, and maybe tries to intimidate her with his authoritative tone. The finger-wiggle, I would say, is related to the Captain, maybe a characteristic of him, something that CP and the director or the screewriter found interesting to include it in the scene. Maybe a sign of his nervousness? because after the reconciliation and connection with his children, we no longer see his hand wiggling like that. My thought is that the posture in this scene is very military-like, e.g. inspection of the troops and and that age-old understanding that one's uniforms must be 'just so'. It reinforces the "I am the Captain and you are the Help" hierarchy as well, but I also go back to the idea that Georg has to 'over-act' in a lot of scenes when he is overwhelmed with feelings he is trying to process (e.g. the little flourishing bows, side glances, finger wiggles, etc.). I think at this point he knows there is something about Maria, but can't quite figure it out...maybe chalks it up to the outfit and her not meeting his expectations of what a governess should look like. Lord knows, he has experience !
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on May 9, 2021 22:34:16 GMT
oh, so much good stuff here. Overacting and fingerwiggles and overwhelmed feelings and "dress off!" I remember how inspiring I found utility_singer's observation that he is checking her out in that dress. As to what is in the bag, we know she owns two nightgowns, and some undergarments, and a big crucifix thing that stands on her desk (unless Frau Schmidt put it there to welcome her haha). As for hatoff, yes indeed reverendcaptain! Hatoff is the pen name of me and lemacd for a story we wrote together but didn't finish, at least not yet. I don't remember how we thought of it but it definitely fit the decidedly spicy nature of the story.
|
|
|
Post by missisa on Sept 20, 2021 20:54:00 GMT
If you allow me, I bring this up again: the Captain's finger wiggle (in various TSOM scenes) is definitely a Chris tick.
I have seen almost every movie of him (especially when young) and it is a gesture that he repeats multiple times, so it is absolutely nothing related to this role or RW (although they were probably aware of the actor's usual gesture).🖖 I say that it has nothing to do with his portrayal of von Trapp because he also does the same wigle for example in Scarlet and the Black (with a quite different role), but he also does it in earlier films (I don't know if to give a specific dimension to their characters or is it something more unconscious). Personally, I think it is something spontaneous, maybe studied at some point but not anymore, like tennis players when they are about to serve (it can help to concentrate or remember lines). Anyway, who knows! too much time analyzing CP 😛😛😛
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Sept 20, 2021 23:06:48 GMT
It's possible that it is a personal habit of his (and does it in real life), then he gets so 'in role' in a part that he does it as a translation of his inner anxiety or conflict. But even if he does it as a conscious acting tool, it is just so effective at conveying that inner dialogue - love it!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on May 19, 2022 21:58:09 GMT
I don't know that I buy that the poor didn't want her dress. It's just a plain dress. If you are poor, you don't care. I think maybe RM kept this one in case she needed to send one of her postulants out into the world so that they had something plain and modest to wear.
Was this Maria's dress from before she entered the abbey? Or some other postulant's?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on May 25, 2022 23:48:52 GMT
How many postulants were sent out into the world from the Abbey? Not many, I would think! They might lose them all, like they lost Maria.
The outfit does seem to fit her well, so I'd say it was hers from before her Abbey days. Shoes would be more of a problem if from the Abbey, as they have to fit well (the RM couldn't keep lots of pairs of different sizes!).
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 23, 2022 2:52:30 GMT
I was thinking about Maria's experience with authority. Why is she not intimidated by the captain? She lives at the abbey where the RM calls the shots. She is outspoken with RM (as she is with everyone), but backs down once RM lets her know she needs to. She doesn't back down with Georg. Is that because he is acting irrationally? Is it because he is hurting his children and she has a soft spot for kids in terrible situations? Something else?
|
|
|
Post by missisa on Oct 26, 2022 20:06:49 GMT
I was thinking about Maria's experience with authority. Why is she not intimidated by the captain? She lives at the abbey where the RM calls the shots. She is outspoken with RM (as she is with everyone), but backs down once RM lets her know she needs to. She doesn't back down with Georg. Is that because he is acting irrationally? Is it because he is hurting his children and she has a soft spot for kids in terrible situations? Something else? I think she just believes in the good side of people, which automatically makes her a friendly person who expects kindness and naturalness from anyone. Which makes her a brave one.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Oct 26, 2022 23:41:34 GMT
I also think the answer may be the same answer from another post we have here: that he is provocative, especially when she first arrives and at dinner that night. I think, being outspoken, she responds to provocation, so doesn't allow him to intimidate her.
It's probably good for him, because I can see him intimidating all the other governesses, and at last here is one who gives as good as she gets - and that's why he likes her!
|
|