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Post by lemacd on Aug 14, 2018 2:33:37 GMT
 So. This guy... I think the next cap thread will address the whole Sixteen/Seventeen dance kiss weeeeeeee! thing... right now I would like to discuss the Rolf that is being presented to us before that. Now, we like Liesl. And she likes Rolf. So we tend to think that Rolf is likeable. But we know things she doesn't, namely that he's a Nazi. Or a Nazi-wannabe. So test your dialogue knowledge--- here, I'll get you started with "If only we didn't have to wait for someone to send Father a telegram, how do I know when I'll see you again?"--- and talk about the things he says to her that should have made her see exactly what kind of guy she is dealing with. And discuss why she didn't pick up on it. Aaaaaand go. |
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 14, 2018 4:05:57 GMT
Yeah. Whenever I watch the scene his 'with a telegram for Colonel Schneider' line '...and staying with' "trails off", I always go 'First Red Flag', and the 'they're getting ready to' "trails off again" 'Second Red Flag'.
As for why Liesl doesn't catch on... Well for 'First Red Flag' he trails off before he says who he's staying with. In the musical he actually says the Gauleiter, but he doesn't here. For all Liesl could know, it's a perfectly innocent person Colonel Schneider is staying with.
Second Red Flag... I guess it's almost the same thing in a way. He never finishes the sentence, and she's so in "love" with him, that she'd brush off anything that's not an obvious concrete answer about something bad. Given that, Liesl could even take his 'let's hope your father doesn't get into trouble' as sort of a 'well, it's not anything to worry about'
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Post by lemacd on Aug 14, 2018 7:18:16 GMT
I think his comment about her father being so Austrian had enough disdain that Liesl might've sensed that he was on the wrong side of things. Then again Liesl might have found that even more enticing, being with someone of which her father would disapprove. She's already pushing boundaries being there. This could be one more way she is trying to get her father's attention.
But I don't think she has a clue about anything he's saying to her. She's treated like a child, marching around in a uniform and watched over by governesses, the girl is so sheltered she hasn't a foggy idea what the real world is doing. And she's a girl... Which shouldn't absolve her but as we will talk about in the next cap, Rolf has a lot to say about how frail and naive girls are at her age.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 14, 2018 7:55:20 GMT
Totally agree with her being as clueless as she is. It's literally in the song.
And for all Rolfe's faults and general jackass-ery, I wouldn't be surprised if he knows all this. Hence the 'why you're such a baby'. I guess they both feed into each other though.
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 15, 2018 22:18:41 GMT
Liesl didn't pick up on any of the warning signs because through her upbringing she had been taught not to use her own mind - sadly normal for girls brought up in that period!
"Totally unprepared am I
To face a world of men
Timid and shy and scared am I
Of things beyond my ken..
I need someone older and wiser
Telling me what to do..."
Does anyone have the details of the dialogue between Liesl and Rolfe when they meet at the Horsefountain in Salzburg later in the film (with Maria - a deleted scene)? Would be interesting to see if he gives away more clues in it.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 16, 2018 6:47:54 GMT
Just going from the script I have (some lines that stayed in the film are a little different so...)
It's set between the market tomato-juggling scene and the beginning of Do-Re-Mi (on the mountain) And apparently there's a small also deleted scene after it.
Liesl: Hello Rolfe
Rolfe: Hello...
Liesl: Would you like to go on a picnic with us?
Rolfe: Picnics are for children. And so is that...get up
Liesl: Please say something nice
ENTER MARIA
Maria: I don't believe we've met
Liesl: Oh...this is...Rolfe
Maria: How do you do Rolfe?
Rolfe: How do you do?
Maria: I'm Fraulein Maria...
Liesl: The governess of my brothers and sisters
Maria: That's right, Liesl's friend
Rolfe: Yes...uh...well...I have to be going
EXIT ROLFE
Maria: Your brothers and sisters and their governess await
You're Welcome
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 16, 2018 23:39:02 GMT
Hmm - not exactly friendly!
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 17, 2018 4:20:34 GMT
Nope. Definitely not friendly. I guess he's already moved onto those who know everything about everyone.
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Post by Supercali on Aug 17, 2018 19:51:17 GMT
I wonder whether he ever liked Liesl or just wanted to seek for a romance like a grown-up while Liesl appeared to be an available perfect choice. It's funny that Liesl didn't want a governess because she didn't want to be treated like a child but she seemed to have no problem of hearing Rolfe said "You are such a baby".
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Post by andhereweare on Aug 17, 2018 22:25:44 GMT
Perhaps his Nazi superiors were happy to have him as another source into the goings-on at Villa von Trapp?
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 17, 2018 22:37:53 GMT
Yes, Rolfe's conversation with Franz when he first arrived at the villa would suggest he had an ulterior motive.
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Post by lemacd on Aug 17, 2018 23:32:35 GMT
that's a good question about whether or not he really like Liesl... he might have seen it as a way to impress someone, that maybe once someone hears he's courting the Captain's daughter he'll be given some kind of mission.
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Post by Supercali on Aug 18, 2018 1:25:07 GMT
Although I don't quite like Rolfe, I don't think that he courted Liesl only for spying her father. Because if he's really that prudent, he probably would not mention Colonel Schneider and later he should have kept in touch with Liesl instead of ignoring her so that he could keep tracking captain's activities.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Aug 18, 2018 5:19:33 GMT
Very good point. I think you're onto something with that idea. The perfect way to keep tabs on Georg would be through his daughter.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Aug 19, 2018 7:02:08 GMT
I don't think she really knows anything about the politics that are happening around her. Her father has kept them sheltered from it, a sign I believe indicates that even though he has been a hands off father, keeping his distance, deep down he still loves them and wants to protect them. That being said I don't see him being connected with the Nazis as a lure, so to speak, for her to go against her father, but there is the lure of going against him because she knows he wouldn't approve of her having a boyfriend. Rolfe makes several indicators here that he is involved with the Nazis, but it's all going right over her head because she is only focused on one thing.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 22, 2020 16:04:33 GMT
Why would going to the Von Trapps by mistake with a telegram for Colonel Schneider be a suggested plan? How would this ever work? Rolf: Good evening, Franz. Deliver this telegram to Colonel Schneider at once! Franz: *puzzled look* Umm Rolf, you know Colonel Schneider is not here. What are you talking about? You shouldn't even be saying his name around here! Rolf: Yes, well, can you tell Liesl I was here by mistake?  Clearly if Liesl is not supposed to tell her father that Colonel Schneider is in town from Berlin, then Rolf could not show up at her house and be asking for him. This makes no sense. I'm not sure why I'm expecting Rolf to have any thought out plans. I guess it's just so that we know Rolf is on the wrong side of things, but it is such an odd conversation. And of course Liesl is oblivious to all of the red flags flying her way. |
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