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Post by augiesannie on Aug 31, 2013 20:45:06 GMT
I don't usually pore over the post-wedding parts of the film, but not wanting them to be neglected, I watched the scene where they try to escape, but are intercepted by Herr Zeller and his goons. Observations:
1. We see Franz peeking out from behind a curtain, suggesting that he ratted the vTs out, except only a few seconds pass between his appearance and Zeller's arrival. Maybe he called ahead.
2. I like the way M&G keep shushing the children. True to life.
3. CP acts with his fingers AGAIN. Also deploys his silly self deprecating grin, which we only see a few times in the whole film.
4. I never realized quite how obvious it is that G grasps at straws, reversing his long-held opposition to their singing in public, just to buy time. I couldn't decide which was more impressive: his cool, steely courage or those blue eyes.
5. I love it when Max says, "believe me, it will be a performance even I could only dream of."
6. I love the way Maria jumps in to make the whole story believable, with her talk of costumes and protecting the childrens' voices. And there is something wonderful about the glance they exchange as they get back in the car - he crosses his fingers and she nods and even gives a little resolute smile - it's a moment where we see them as partners, and she seems to have shaken off her post-honeymoon wimpiness.
Here's to underappreciated scenes!
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Post by lemacd on Aug 31, 2013 22:28:16 GMT
1. totally called ahead of time. the subject of my yet-to-be-written-and-i-have-no-idea-when-i'll-get-to-it Franz story. i always find fanfic that depicts him all happy and part of the family odd. in the movie he isn't at all like that. he's a villain. but just maybe he has a reason he did what he did that has nothing to do with nazis. imagination. it's a wonderful thing.
2. true to life would be "would you all just shut up already?!" ok, that's true to my life. i'm no maria fo shizzle.
3. i love the "well, apparently we're both suffering from a deplorable lack of curiosity." and even though zeller catches him re: the car starting, telegrams, etc G doesn't let him think he won at all. does this make sense? and the finger thing. and the grin thing. awesomesauce.
4. see number 3.
5. i want to slap max, actually. he is constantly on the verge of making things worse, sometimes.
6. it was such "don't worry, i have a plan." and "cool, i'm in." moment.
7. were they all going to fit in that car? max included? i need to go back and look at the car again... doesn't strike me as that big.
thanks for bring this up. i tend to let this scene go without much thought, too.
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Post by mie779 on Sept 1, 2013 16:52:44 GMT
6. totally agree with you... love that moment between them... they are true partners now and know each other so well that they both know what the other think (almost) 7. I have always wondered about the car... how to stuff 7 children AND 3 adults in that... I know they might not have had that much focus on seatbelts at that time... (Heck when my dad was a kid back in the 60' they pilled the children (8 children!) ontop of baggage and vacation stuff in a big van like car... must have been a sight to see, and not something that the police today would aprove off  ) |
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 2, 2013 13:49:51 GMT
in the book , "Franz" surprises them all by announcing that he's a supporter of the Nazis, but I seem to recall he also helps them out in some way? Agree about Max. He almost makes it worse when the program seems to contradict Georg. Loved "deplorable lack of curiousity." G's goofiness in this scene -- since it shows up nowhere else -- shows how masterfully he's playing the scene. I'm not biased or anything. Car seems pretty big when Max brings them back after the reherasal. But then I remembered that, of course, the actual escape car was borrowed from the Abbey, and could have been a tighter squeeze. Here's a picture.  |
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Post by lemacd on Sept 2, 2013 15:41:43 GMT
i'll have to double check on the part about him helping in the book. he certainly did in the original movie (now with subtitles!!  )and the book does make it a sad point that the relationship with the butler was ruined by events, but i don't remember him doing anything to help them leave. thanks for clearing up the size of the car matter. i'm sure it was a very tight squeeze, but i can see how it could be done. and there's always the trunk. max drew the short straw. poor max. that'll learn him to make the Captain's children sing in public! |
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Post by lemacd on Sept 2, 2013 19:48:19 GMT
i have perused the book ('the story of the von trapp family singers') and haven't found anything that says he helped them. but i can certainly see how he may have kept his mouth shut and let them escape instead of turning on them out of pure devotion. i don't think it is hard to imagine it happening that way. but not in the movie. franz had nazi written all over him from the start. how did the captain not see that?! (just kidding... no need to answer.)
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 2, 2013 20:37:44 GMT
thanks, and in the play, Rolf actually delivers that telegram himself just after the honeymoon, with a hearty "Heil Hitler" flourish, which Franz returns. "Even Franz," Maria remarks, and Rolf says something to the effect of, "yes, everyone except the great Captain von Trapp." I guess I made up the part about Franz. What can I say? You people put me on the road to fabrication with all that AU.
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Post by lemacd on Sept 2, 2013 22:04:37 GMT
well, it is in the other version. in fact i liked how he helped them, it kinda made me laugh. i wonder since it was a german version if they were trying to downplay the evil. just a thought that popped into my head.
sorry that we ruined you... i would love to read an AU story by you, but i know that isn't your thing. which is ok. takes all kinds to make a world, so they say.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 17, 2019 21:51:01 GMT
I’ve always wondered what the car ride to the festival was like. I imagine Maria to be frantically re-choreographing the songs the children were planning to sing to add herself and Georg into the act. This would keep the children busy helping her. Georg and Max would be discussing their get away plans. Do you think the plan was always to leave the festival and go to the abbey? Or were they planning to go to their car and found it guarded by Nazis so the abbey was plan B? And Zeller would know instantly that Max helped Georg escape. Max would be running for his life too. How does he get away? With all the commotion of the guards fleeing to look for Georg, Max ducks out the side door and asks the Toby Reiser Quintet for a ride to the border? I love what augiesannie said in the original post for this thread about how Maria jumping into the conversation with Zeller makes the whole thing believable, and how their glance at each other before getting into the car shows that they are equal partners. I couldn’t agree more. I think the car ride is more of them trusting each other to do what they do best. Maria is fabulous at caring for the kids and planning performances and Georg as a master strategist. What a high pressure situation to be in though. It’s fun to try to fill in the details of what might have happened. |
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Post by missisa on Sept 3, 2022 20:43:22 GMT
I love this thread, it's just what I was looking for. Unlike augiesannie, I get on top when it comes to posting about the post-honeymoon 😅 1.Franz had been collaborating with the Nazis from the very beginning, his behind-the-curtains mission simply consists to warn the group on lookout duty at the Villa, with Herr Zeller leading and probably wanting to end the tedious task of patrolling. 2. I also ADORE the way M&G keep shushing the children. I remember that it caused me anxiety to think that because of those voices everything could collapse. 3. Georg's body language here has a lot of CP's, surely they were contributions from Plummer himself to make the Captain more interesting, here vulnerable and at the same time in a position of head of the family like never before. 4. Undoubtedly those blue eyes! 5. I'm with the team that would slap Max here. It sounds like a phrase out of place, but how to leave Max out of a conversation about the Festival, after all he's been talking about it? 6. Well,the glance they exchange as they get back in the car and his fingers crossed... If I ever have to explain to my children what perfect married love is, I'll show them that scene. It is the icing on the cake to the tension of this (perfect) sequence. As for the rest, we all agree that on the way to the festival there was a lot to talk about but one thing has always caught my attention, and I have searched several threads without finding anything. The festival has begun, the von Trapps singing on stage. Georg seems distracted, looks around, watches the soldiers, re-engages in acting. That gesture of his is one of my favorites in the entire movie. (I can post the screencap later if somebody wants to know which I'm referring to, since I cannot upload it now) No doubt he was analyzing the situation while singing but, for a moment, he is just focused on the escape! How is it possible that the festival was so guarded inside and yet 9 people could flee in a car to the Abbey? Who helped them? |
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 3, 2022 20:49:06 GMT
Wow missisa, lots here to unpack. These scenes really fill in the picture of Georg as a hero (but vulnerable too as you say). That glance they exchange is one of my very favorite things about the whole movie. The crossed fingers and all! I need to go eat dinner now but then I am definitely going to watch for Georg looking around and then reengaging. Love moments like these. |
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Post by missisa on Sept 3, 2022 21:01:41 GMT
I couldn't resist it and I went to open the computer to attach the image. Here it goes! (can you see it? not sure I have attached it correctly). That look from the Captain: he is scrutinizing the army that has them besieged. This makes my hair stand on end, not so much because of the blue eyes but because of everything it implies. Nazis have caught him and the whole family. Just a few hours ago they said goodbye to their home and they know they are at war. And presumably they already have their plan outlined to go to the Abbey but everything is uncertainty and also determination to try by all means. festival.webp (39.05 KB) |
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 3, 2022 22:13:37 GMT
missisa do you mean when he gives Maria the little nod?
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Post by missisa on Sept 4, 2022 8:24:41 GMT
missisa do you mean when he gives Maria the little nod? No, I mean when he directs his eyes upwards and finds the soldiers in the amphitheater. |
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 4, 2022 12:42:50 GMT
Yes, you can feel his heart sink at that point.
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Sept 4, 2022 16:30:17 GMT
1. totally called ahead of time. the subject of my yet-to-be-written-and-i-have-no-idea-when-i'll-get-to-it Franz story. i always find fanfic that depicts him all happy and part of the family odd. in the movie he isn't at all like that. he's a villain. but just maybe he has a reason he did what he did that has nothing to do with nazis. imagination. it's a wonderful thing. 2. true to life would be "would you all just shut up already?!" ok, that's true to my life. i'm no maria fo shizzle. 3. i love the "well, apparently we're both suffering from a deplorable lack of curiosity." and even though zeller catches him re: the car starting, telegrams, etc G doesn't let him think he won at all. does this make sense? and the finger thing. and the grin thing. awesomesauce. 4. see number 3. 5. i want to slap max, actually. he is constantly on the verge of making things worse, sometimes. 6. it was such "don't worry, i have a plan." and "cool, i'm in." moment. 7. were they all going to fit in that car? max included? i need to go back and look at the car again... doesn't strike me as that big. thanks for bring this up. i tend to let this scene go without much thought, too. In reference to lemacd and #1, I too have noticed that in a lot of fanfics, Franz is sarcastic and kind of an arse (forgive the term) but he is almost never written as he is in the film. I have a theory and/or idea on why... okay, maybe it's more of my opinion. Anyway. In the Die Familie Trapp film, isn't Franz (I can't remember if that's the butler's name in the film bc it's been ages since I've watched it) portrayed as being a relatively nice guy even though he is a Nazi? Bc if my memory serves me well (not sure if it will lol), he warned them that people were coming to look for Georg and take him. Maybe they get the notion of Franz being a nice guy from there? I don't know bc it's fanfiction where the characters and plots get sucked down the rabbit holes that are our imaginations. Always something I've pondered over occasionally. Also, feel free to correct me on anything that might be wrong. I've just gotten back into the fandom after a long hiatus and have forgotten some things. |
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Post by lemacd on Sept 6, 2022 5:16:18 GMT
Silver-White-Winters wow, bonus points for unearthing this comment. I honestly don't remember my thought process on that first point... I can't think of a single fic where Franz is portrayed as a nice guy. You definitely get the impression from that movie and from the books that the family was fond of him and he was fond of them... he was upfront about his political leanings which was a disappointment for the Captain but not enough to sack the guy so clearly he was valued. welcome back to the discussion. I'm kind of getting back to proboards... my fic writing has shriveled and died but I still love the movie so much.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 7, 2022 19:09:17 GMT
How is it possible that the festival was so guarded inside and yet 9 people could flee in a car to the Abbey? Who helped them? Good question. It seems unlikely that they placed every solider inside the theater and left none to guard the exits and their car, right? Did people working at the theater help them? Were there a few sympathetic soldiers that looked the other way? Did Max call in some favors and have someone create some sort of diversion? |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 7, 2022 19:14:15 GMT
I couldn't resist it and I went to open the computer to attach the image. Here it goes! (can you see it? not sure I have attached it correctly). That look from the Captain: he is scrutinizing the army that has them besieged. This makes my hair stand on end, not so much because of the blue eyes but because of everything it implies. Nazis have caught him and the whole family. Just a few hours ago they said goodbye to their home and they know they are at war. And presumably they already have their plan outlined to go to the Abbey but everything is uncertainty and also determination to try by all means. View AttachmentI'm going to quote from your point #3 above missisa, as it captures my feeling on this screencap perfectly. "vulnerable and at the same time in a position of head of the family like never before." I love this look too. |
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 7, 2022 23:17:30 GMT
I like to think that, having been an upright member of the community for so many years, Capt von T could call in some favours of his own with the theatre staff, to enable them to escape; how else could they have done it? Also, Max seems to have a self-satisfied look about him when he takes to the microphone - has he already arranged their escape? Because I think the next time we see them, they are away at the Abbey.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 8, 2022 18:30:08 GMT
Max absolutely knows the plan. He keeps looking to Zeller just to have the satisfaction of seeing his reaction when it is discovered that Georg has escaped. His smirk is priceless.
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 17, 2022 15:41:42 GMT
I couldn't resist it and I went to open the computer to attach the image. Here it goes! (can you see it? not sure I have attached it correctly). That look from the Captain: he is scrutinizing the army that has them besieged. This makes my hair stand on end, not so much because of the blue eyes but because of everything it implies. Nazis have caught him and the whole family. Just a few hours ago they said goodbye to their home and they know they are at war. And presumably they already have their plan outlined to go to the Abbey but everything is uncertainty and also determination to try by all means. View Attachmentwhat I love about this is that he is coolly assessing the situation and figuring out a plan. He's not panicking at all. And then he shakes it off and goes back to singing. |
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Post by missisa on Sept 18, 2022 13:28:53 GMT
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Post by dontevenknowher on Oct 23, 2022 4:13:06 GMT
Just jumping in here to say how thoroughly impressed I am at the whole family’s ability to pivot. The children have been rehearsing their performance for a few weeks by this point. They’re rehearsed and ready. Now suddenly, dad and new mom are going to be joining them. And while the performance isn’t super intricate and complicated, it’s not just simple singing along together. There’s harmonies and expositions added to their pieces that hadn’t been there before. As a musician myself, I can definitely say adding in the two extra voices in the way they are would be nerve wracking to say the least. So for them to get that put together on the fly like that has always impressed me, especially of the Captain, who would most assuredly have had a busy mind. Yes, I know this falls under “movie magic” and whatnot, but in the movie universe, the Captain, and his family, pulled off something bigger than just escaping the Nazis.
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Post by goldenbeauty on Feb 15, 2024 5:36:26 GMT
I honestly love this scene for how in tune Georg and Maria are now. She lies so easily to help him, and truly has his back. I don't know if Georg would have come up with the idea of it being their costumes, but Maria was on point.
I also love this scene because it IMHO is another great example of Chris' eye acting. There is this hate and anger in his eyes when it comes to Zeller and the Nazi's vs. rather him just being angry in the rowboat fight scene.
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 22, 2024 18:55:17 GMT
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 22, 2024 20:15:18 GMT
Fun comparison, ladies.
There is anger and disbelief in both, but The Argument is just his frustration with his employee that she deliberately disobeyed his rules, and that she hit a little too close to home on the assessment of his parenting. His eyes are widened with anger when he says "Oh yes you are captain!", but it's to exert his authority.
The look in his eyes when he says "private!" to Zeller is almost unhinged. Everything he has stood for his whole life is being threatened, not to mention the safety of his family. He looks like a man who is capable of anything in that moment, even something terrible. The acting is just phenomenal.
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 25, 2024 0:42:12 GMT
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)
)and the book does make it a sad point that the relationship with the butler was ruined by events, but i don't remember him doing anything to help them leave. 
