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Post by captainfraulein on May 2, 2020 8:13:10 GMT
Hi guys, I’m new to this forum so if this has already been done, I’m sorry. I wanted to focus on this because it's always in the back of my mind when I watch the movie. Everybody, including Frau Schmidt believe that Georg is going to marry Elsa, but to me, they just don’t seem to have that sort of relationship. It seems more like a friendship or business match than anything else but it doesn't seem to go much further, especially when you compare it to the relationship between M and G and its passionate nature. It just seems very platonic. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Sorry again if this has been done before but I'm new to this forum and I just wanted to discuss it
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Post by augiesannie on May 2, 2020 11:15:35 GMT
Hi and welcome! No worries if this is a repeat topic because it is all so so good! And this is a great question! Agree that Elsa and Georg seem more like friends or associates. I think o his end, it may be because he doesn’t think he can love anyone again the way he loved his late wife. On her end? Maybe the same (she’s a widow) or maybe she’s hiding her feelings for fear of scaring him away?. Frau Schmidt seems to suggest the he also is very grief stricken (or maybe she’s impressed by Elsa?) Somewhere in the forum you will find multiple posts about the question of whether E&G had an intimate relationship which, as you suggest, seems kind of unlikely. Hi guys, I’m new to this forum so if this has already been done, I’m sorry. I wanted to focus on this because it's always in the back of my mind when I watch the movie. Everybody, including Frau Schmidt believe that Georg is going to marry Elsa, but to me, they just don’t seem to have that sort of relationship. It seems more like a friendship or business match than anything else but it doesn't seem to go much further, especially when you compare it to the relationship between M and G and its passionate nature. It just seems very platonic. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Sorry again if this has been done before but I'm new to this forum and I just wanted to discuss it
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Post by emilia78 on May 2, 2020 12:29:09 GMT
Hi guys, I’m new to this forum so if this has already been done, I’m sorry. I wanted to focus on this because it's always in the back of my mind when I watch the movie. Everybody, including Frau Schmidt believe that Georg is going to marry Elsa, but to me, they just don’t seem to have that sort of relationship. It seems more like a friendship or business match than anything else but it doesn't seem to go much further, especially when you compare it to the relationship between M and G and its passionate nature. It just seems very platonic. Anyway, what are your thoughts?Welcome!!! I would not say platonic, I am sure they had intimate relations. If you notice their body language during their discussion in the garden before the rowboat scene, it is obvious that they are a couple. He tells her that he considers Elsa his saviour. If they had no relations, but only were social friends, they would not talk to each other like that or hug. Elsa has also gone to the villa to meet the children as her relationship with the captain gets more and more serious. Practically the Captain takes the following step after forming his relationship with her and before the engagement/marriage where they all become a family. The fact that they are not passionate towards each other, I think it is due to the fact that the movie is a family movie addressed to all ages...it is a fairy tale, pure magic, not pretty woman for instance haha..so that they kiss all the time. If they love each other?? hmmmm I think in their way and according to their social values and status, yes. But a conventional type of love and sympathy. Their are widowers, rich aristocrats, they share a wonderful time together, and thats it, nothing more nothing less...''not too sour not too sweet, just too pink''. As an image, they are a perfect match. His first wife was also a rich aristocrat, so I believe sometimes, though I am not 100% sure, that Elsa looks like Agathe in a certain way.. well-bred, perfect hostess, polished, subdued to her husband and family values. I have wondered many times why Agathe had 7 children, with a naval officer for husband who was almost always away from home. I tend to think that she had all these children in order to comfort her solitude and feel less lonely while he was absent from home. She filled the house with children so she would have laughing, music in the house, playing, nothing that would remind her his absence. And when the war came to its end, Georg was a national hero and was going to get retired, she died leaving him all alone in a huge villa with seven children. Maria comes from a totally different environment but she has a loving vivid spirit. She wants desperately to belong somewhere. Image is out of her concerns. And yet she managed to achieve what Agathe and Elsa failed to do, to form a united loving family who all stay together despite all the calamities and disasters, using music and playing as the decisive liaison. I believe that even in case Austria was against the nazis, Georg would not have gone to the war either. What is your opinion on this? do you think that he would go to fight against the nazis? I believe no, because he could implement himself in the anti-nazi forces of other countries fighting against Germany, if he wanted to fight. But he did not want to participate in battles. He preferred becoming a singer with his family and travelling to USA.
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Post by captainfraulein on May 2, 2020 13:27:42 GMT
I have no idea how to reply to anyone on this so I’m just writing another post hahaha. I agree with both of you. The scene between Elsa and Georg before the rowboat incident definitely does indicate that there was a relationship there. I have also always been of the opinion that Elsa reminded Georg of Agathe in some ways and that she had helped him to deal with his grief, especially considering the fact that he called her his "Saviour." I guess I'm just trying to understand how Georg could go from wanting to marry Elsa to then completely falling in love with Maria because they are very different people. I suppose, he maybe had feelings for them for different reasons. For instance, Elsa reminded him of his late wife because of her sophistication, elegance and aristocratic background and therefore, it would have been a simple match. On the other hand, he fell in love with Maria because of her free spirit, her ability to love unconditionally and the fact that she created a strong bond among his family. Therefore, I have now been totally swayed!! The relationship between Elsa and Georg, although more business-like, was definitely not platonic when you really think about the background and read between the lines.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 5, 2020 16:30:53 GMT
2 very interesting points! I always thought that he picked Elsa because she was so different from Agathe, not because she reminded him of her. I imagine Agathe to be rich and sophisticated (just as Elsa is), but more of a hands on mother, less concerned with appearances. I think Georg picked Elsa because he doesn't want anything around him that reminds him of Agathe, so he chose a Vienna party girl instead of a loving mother/housewife. I think Maria is unlike anyone he has ever met. Would he have been able to resist going to war if Austria were fighting the Nazis. Wow. Maybe? His priorities have shifted now. He isn't the reckless youth that assumed nothing bad could ever happen to him or his family. I think he would want to stay home. But he is such a patriot that it would be hard for him to not be a part of it all. Maybe he could still be working for the navy, but not actually out on the water?
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 5, 2020 16:32:50 GMT
His first wife was also a rich aristocrat, so I believe sometimes, though I am not 100% sure, that Elsa looks like Agathe in a certain way.. well-bred, perfect hostess, polished, subdued to her husband and family values. I believe that even in case Austria was against the nazis, Georg would not have gone to the war either. What is your opinion on this? do you think that he would go to fight against the nazis? Whoops, the quotes got cut off on my last post somehow.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 5, 2020 16:37:17 GMT
I have no idea how to reply to anyone on this so I’m just writing another post hahaha. I agree with both of you. The scene between Elsa and Georg before the rowboat incident definitely does indicate that there was a relationship there. I have also always been of the opinion that Elsa reminded Georg of Agathe in some ways and that she had helped him to deal with his grief, especially considering the fact that he called her his "Saviour." I guess I'm just trying to understand how Georg could go from wanting to marry Elsa to then completely falling in love with Maria because they are very different people. I suppose, he maybe had feelings for them for different reasons. For instance, Elsa reminded him of his late wife because of her sophistication, elegance and aristocratic background and therefore, it would have been a simple match. On the other hand, he fell in love with Maria because of her free spirit, her ability to love unconditionally and the fact that she created a strong bond among his family. Therefore, I have now been totally swayed!! The relationship between Elsa and Georg, although more business-like, was definitely not platonic when you really think about the background and read between the lines. I still think it was platonic! That's the awesome thing about this forum. We all have such different ways of seeing the same scenes. I think that even though they are touching each other and flirting with each other in the lake scene, that they have not progressed farther than that. I think he's too broken still over losing Agathe. Welcome captainfraulein!
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Post by captainfraulein on May 5, 2020 19:47:44 GMT
Thanks everyone!
I really love the fact that we all have such different interpretations of the events that occur in this movie as it makes these conversations very interesting.
I think that Elsa, in her background and mannerisms etc, may have reminded Georg of Agathe to an extent but her infatuation with keeping up appearances, getting along with everyone and being distant from the children was, more than likely, very different from Agathe. She may have been a good escape from his grief because of these differences?
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Post by indigoblue on May 26, 2020 23:34:17 GMT
I agree that Agathe was probably a "stay-at-home mum", whose children were probably at the centre of her world.
Maybe Georg's fascination with Elsa was because she was so different - an elegant, very sophisticated party girl with a city social life.
But it was only when the reality became apparent that his interest in her paled:not interested in the kids, not interested in the home or the country life. Then Maria turned up...
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Post by riana11 on May 28, 2020 17:52:19 GMT
I think that Georg and Elsa was a friendship type of love. I did not see any passion during their scenes together in the movie, especially when compared with his scenes with Maria. She was probably someone who was exciting to him and completely opposite to Agathe, which is what attracted him in the first place. Agathe was probably more of a quiet person and more motherly.
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Post by itsdayandnight on May 29, 2020 12:44:27 GMT
I'm new too (high five!!)
I think that Georg was more in love with the idea of Elsa: she's wealthy, aristocratic, graceful, witty, charming, etc. but he was not in love with /her/, if you catch my drift (!!!) I think that, based on their mannerisms in the scene before the rowboat, they were more of friends with benefits than a couple. Normal friends wouldn't tease their friends the way that Georg and Elsa teased each other. They must have either really liked each other or were intimate with each other to a certain extent.
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Post by riana11 on May 29, 2020 15:12:01 GMT
itsdayandnight - high five! back to you. Yes, I think everything about Elsa screamed "perfect match" to Georg and this is what he wanted in the beginning. He did not want to be alone anymore, he wanted a mother for his children, etc. The last thing he expected was to fall for Maria where in his world she would not be his perfect match. What I love about his character is he doesn't listen to society's standards and ends up following his heart.
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Post by indigoblue on May 30, 2020 0:01:22 GMT
Sometimes it can feel very flattering when someone attractive clearly finds you attractive too; maybe Elsa had the hots for Georg (who doesn't?), and he had felt so lonely that it was easy for him to fall in with her. Then after spending a lot of time with her in Vienna, and perhaps feeling that she was too 'suitable' a property to lose, he decided to take it further by inviting her to meet the kids.
For me this explains his slight reticence with Elsa - he never seems really keen on her, never really relaxes with her, so to me it feels a little like a marriage of convenience between two nearly well-suited people.
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