|
Post by Silver-White-Winters on Dec 30, 2020 4:00:02 GMT
So, I was rereading some the stories that augiesannie wrote, and came across 'With Your Whole Heart' (which I shockingly haven't read). Anyway, it got me thinking.
While this topic isn't my cup of tea, I did enjoy the read. I was thinking about this while reading: If Elsa knew of the sadness in Maria's past (and the abuse of her uncle), do you think she would have left Georg? Left him and told him that he should follow his heart and pursue a proper relationship with Maria?
If Elsa knew Maria's backstory, do you think she would have end her relationship with Georg, so he could be with Maria? I am curious to see what y'all think.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 30, 2020 5:45:57 GMT
I'm going to say no on this. I think Elsa sees Maria as beneath her, and while she may have sympathy for anyone who has had a difficult past, I don't think she'd give up Georg over it. I think it is when Georg tells her (by action, not so much by words) that he is in love with Maria, that she backs down. Georg is her equal, and she genuinely cares for him, so his feelings count to her in a way that Maria's don't.
Does this sound too heartless? I haven't read the story that you are referencing, I'm just commenting on my viewpoint from what we see in the movie.
|
|
|
Post by itsdayandnight on Dec 30, 2020 5:47:13 GMT
Eek, that really is something to think about! For me, the curious thing about Elsa's character is that she's unpredictable yet seemingly predictable? I don't know how to explain it properly. but sometimes you think you know what she will do, but the thing is, you really don't. People expect her to conform to the norm, and she does it perfectly, yet no one truly knows her inner workings, how and why she does things, whatsoever.
This said, I think she won't? I don't know how to explain it, but it has nothing to do with "bad" character or selfishness, but because of norms and societal rules, etc. I think that deep within her, regardless if she did know of Maria's past or not, she knew that though Georg's heart belonged to Maria, vice versa, it's something that's difficult for society to swallow so she wouldn't do it - for both Georg and Maria's sake. Although I think she would care about Maria's backstory (and deep down, have a soft spot for Maria but never show it), she knows that society won't coddle over her because of it. She would be seen as an ex-nun and a governess, not a lovely person who has found love and acceptance. So she won't just stand aside that easily. She would wait for Georg to tell her directly that he could not be with her and realize that he loves Maria himself.
And I'd just like to add - though I've read so many lovely fics that depict otherwise, I really think that that scene in Maria's bedroom was the most vital scene in Maria and Georg's story. It brings Maria's feelings to light even if it's in one of the harshest ways possible, but in the end, she acknowledges it anyways, right? And Georg sees a world without Maria and decides that he cannot live without her. This said, *ehem* Baroness Machiavelli's tactic worked - the end justifies the means! Sad means, but beautiful outcome.
|
|
laurynvi
Full Member
I ask you to stay.
Posts: 212
|
Post by laurynvi on Dec 30, 2020 13:39:09 GMT
I also agree that Elsa would not have backed down for Maria's sake. In fact, I doubt she notices very much of what is happening to Maria outside of her feelings for Georg - not necessarily in a cruel way, more in a "this woman exists in an entirely different world from me".
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Dec 30, 2020 16:04:12 GMT
wow, what great insights from itsdayandnight about how the bedroom scene gives us insights into Maria's feelings, and from laurynvi about how Elsa really only backs down when she sees she has lost Georg. In the story Silver-White-Winters references (which wasn't one of my favorites either, but I wanted to experiment with what would happen if M decided to stay with G as his mistress), Elsa has no choice but to stay with Georg, because her previous marriage has left her impoverished and physically broken. So backing down is not an option. In the world of the movie, where this is not the case, I agree that while Elsa has her soft spots, Maria's sad story alone would not cause her to leave. We cannot expect otherwise from a woman who does not melt in Marta's presence (I'm team Marta not team Gretl).
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 8, 2021 18:07:20 GMT
Team Marta? hahaha. If I had to pick between Marta and Gretl, I'd go with Marta too. She is a quiet sweetheart, who probably often gets overlooked because she isn't the baby. I liked that it was her that Georg picked up and swung around when they returned from their honeymoon. I'm sure she liked the individual attention.
|
|
|
Post by Silver-White-Winters on Jan 8, 2021 21:18:08 GMT
Team Marta? hahaha. If I had to pick between Marta and Gretl, I'd go with Marta too. She is a quiet sweetheart, who probably often gets overlooked because she isn't the baby. I liked that it was her that Georg picked up and swung around when they returned from their honeymoon. I'm sure she liked the individual attention. As much as I love little Gretl, I am team Marta, as well. I feel like she is over looked and I basically agree with reverendcaptain.
|
|