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Post by captainfraulein on May 3, 2021 8:01:01 GMT
Rewatching tsom right now and I just noticed something. Throughout the whole movie, the Captain addresses Maria as 'Fraulein Maria'' or simply 'Fraulein.' After he breaks off his engagement with Elsa (woohoo!) he comes to find Maria by the gazebo. After she says "I'm sure the Baroness will be able to make things fine for you" and starts to walk away, he simply calls her 'Maria.' Now, I've noticed this change before but I never noticed her reaction. She literally stops dead in her tracks (swoon). I think this is such a lovely but subtle way to show how their relationship has changed and it is so well played by JA and CP (such great chemistry, ahhhhh!) I also noticed that she never calls him 'Georg,' only 'Captain,' 'Sir' or 'Darling.' While a lot of people seem to like that she calls him darling, I'm deeply disappointed that we never get to hear her call him Georg. I guess what I'm asking is, do you think it was a creative choice to not have her call him by his actual name or was it just not really considered? To me, it shows the difference in Maria's relationship with him and Elsa's relationship with him (she always called him Georg.) Either way, I'm still kinda disappointed that she never says it haha. This is a lot longer than i was expecting but please tell me all your thoughts! (and apologies if this has been discussed before)
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on May 3, 2021 16:13:38 GMT
Oooh, I love this (and think about it all the time) - thanks for starting the discussion!
I think when he calls her "Maria" is the pivotal moment of the movie (gives me chills every time). It is him intentionally acknowledging (and her responding) to how their relationship is about to change. It's sensual but also incredibly bold of him because he doesn't exactly know how she feels/will respond and he's putting himself on the line, so to speak.
I'm also disappointed we never hear her call him Georg! Alas their marriage spans such a short part of the movie and is overshadowed by Nazis - I think most of their married life is hightlighted by visual changes (the way we see them interact is completely different) as opposed to what they say.
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Post by indigoblue on May 3, 2021 22:06:18 GMT
Elsa used his Christian name because she considered that they were social equals.
So when Georg called Maria by that name for the first time, it was to signify too that he held her in such high regard that he felt they were equals. I suppose this is obvious, but for a man high up in the military where it is very hierarchical, it must have been quite a big move for him - as you say, it took a bit of boldness. And don't we love it...
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Post by augiesannie on May 5, 2021 0:06:11 GMT
I love these moments, captainfraulein, I'm so glad you wrote about them! I LOVE when he calls her Maria. I just went and watched that bit and the music is also amazing - it stops dead after he says Maria, and then when it picks up again, it's the Laendler AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH! so good. I had never thought about how Elsa always calls him Georg (I think he calls her darling though?) that's a smart observation.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 5, 2021 4:50:49 GMT
I too LOVE this scene where he calls her by her name, and I too am disappointed that we never get to her her say his.
I've never really thought about how often we hear Elsa say his name though, and now I'm kind of obsessed about it. I am mentally going through dialogue on fastforward (a sure way to miss things) trying to think of how many times Elsa addresses him. Here's what I've got:
1. The mountains are magnificent Georg 2. This really is exciting for me Georg 3. You're much less of a riddle when I see you here Georg 4. I do like it here Georg 5. What would you call me Georg 6. Georg he's just a boy 7. I have a wonderful idea Georg 8. All that needless worrying Georg 9. Something long and cool Georg 10. Isn't it wonderful Georg 11. Elsa? Yes Georg? 12. Don't say another word Georg please
12 TIMES!! And I'm sure I'm missing some. Would it have killed them to let Maria say it once?!
Plus there are 2 where she says his name to Max, but I'm not counting those.
What about the other way around? Do we ever hear Georg say "Elsa" besides when he is trying to get her attention to break up with her? There are few darlings in there, but I don't think any other Elsas.
What about Elsa and Maria? It is kind of interesting in the bedroom scene that Maria addresses Elsa as baroness ("It's very kind of you to offer to help my baroness") and Elsa addresses Maria ("I'm delighted Maria"). It's not surprsing given their stations, but then later in front of Georg, it's "Fraulein Maria, you've returned." Was she subtly reminding Maria that she is of higher rank than her in the bedroom, but unwilling to be so informal in front of others?
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 5, 2021 4:56:51 GMT
Elsa used his Christian name because she considered that they were social equals. So when Georg called Maria by that name for the first time, it was to signify too that he held her in such high regard that he felt they were equals. I suppose this is obvious, but for a man high up in the military where it is very hierarchical, it must have been quite a big move for him - as you say, it took a bit of boldness. And don't we love it... Yes! Him using her name is absolutely him telling her that they are equals. Her using his name would have let us know that she acknowledged this and is allowing herself to see herself as his equal, even though moments ago she did not feel that she was. I kind of feel the same way about "I love you". I really wanted to hear her say that. Yes, the kissing does imply it, but still..
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Post by indigoblue on May 5, 2021 17:23:52 GMT
Love your genius post about Elsa using Georg's name, reverendcaptain!
It occurred to me having read this that for Elsa to use his name so frequently (in every scene?) means she (or the screenwriter/CP) fully intended to show how keen she was on him - it is a very engaging thing to use someone's Christian name in such a way. So it underlines subtly how her intent is to 'catch' him, preferably with an engagement. Alternatively, it may belie her insecurity within the relationship if she feels the need to keep reaching out to him. Or even her own inate insecurity...
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laurynvi
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Post by laurynvi on May 6, 2021 11:47:29 GMT
Elsa sounds almost like a simpering salesperson!
By contract, Georg is pretty stingy with calling people by name but he uses Max’s name almost every time he addresses him - sort of a fond ‘Max, you child’ kind of way.
Adds an interesting layer of depth to how the characters relate to each other.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 9, 2021 20:19:57 GMT
In thinking about this further, I realized that I very rarely use people's names when speaking to them, aside from greeting them. The exception being if we are in a group and I am asking a question to one specific person. If I am alone with someone, I don't see the need to repeat their name. It is obvious who I am speaking to. So maybe Elsa's motivation in often saying Georg's name in a conversation is to make sure that she has his attention. People always tune in more when they hear their own name. Or maybe it is to consistently remind everyone around them (and herself) that they have a close relationship.
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Post by augiesannie on May 9, 2021 22:56:04 GMT
so smart. Thinking to that one time when we hear Georg say Elsa's name that reverendcaptain has pointed out, it's interesting that it's "E-Elsa." I suppose he is interrupting her and maybe he's uneasy/nervous. I see laurynvi's point about visuals being our best information about their brief marriage, but maybe we can make lemonade out of lemons, that Maria only ever calls him "darling," because it's a wonderful sign of how intimate they are. Elsa called him Georg but Maria calls him darling kind of thing.
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Post by augiesannie on May 9, 2021 22:56:28 GMT
so smart. Thinking to that one time when we hear Georg say Elsa's name that reverendcaptain has pointed out, it's interesting that it's "E-Elsa." I suppose he is interrupting her and maybe he's uneasy/nervous. I see laurynvi's point about visuals being our best information about their brief marriage, but maybe we can make lemonade out of lemons, that Maria only ever calls him "darling," because it's a wonderful sign of how intimate they are. Elsa called him Georg but Maria calls him darling kind of thing.
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Post by ANeedlePullingThread on Jun 3, 2021 18:49:11 GMT
Elsa used his Christian name because she considered that they were social equals. So when Georg called Maria by that name for the first time, it was to signify too that he held her in such high regard that he felt they were equals. I suppose this is obvious, but for a man high up in the military where it is very hierarchical, it must have been quite a big move for him - as you say, it took a bit of boldness. And don't we love it... This. I’m getting misty eyed. If you turn up the lighting setting and have a big enough device, you can see her face change, almost shocked when he calls out the first “Maria”. As has been noticed. He says Elsa once with hesitation, only to tell her it won’t work.I think he calls her “darling” and “my dear” while in his show off mode (had the mountains put up just for you, my dear I’d hardly call you a mere distraction) Maria’s name flows from him, immediately, and so soothingly, three times “Maria, there isn’t going to be any baroness.” “Is that why you came back? And have you found it, Maria?” “Maria is there anyone I should go to to ask permission to marry you? Even Max, he sees she “has influence” even before they’ve admitted their attraction. “Maria you must talk to him”. He knows off the bat she was his love, despite wanting that lovely money in the family. I love how someone said she doesn’t call him Georg, he is darling, suggesting they have a very fun and natural love and relationship. They’re equals. This all made me swoon.
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Post by goldenbeauty on Mar 12, 2024 15:19:54 GMT
I really wanted to see Maria call him Georg as well, or hear an "I love you" from her too. I know as said it was implied in the kiss and also in Something Good, and the conversation with Liesl in the Sixteen Going on Seventeen reprise, but I really would have loved to hear the words.
Also I love that he calls her "my love" in the gazebo scene. Like that shit made me swoon so hard.
Something else I liked was her calling Max by his name and vice versa it shows they probably became closer as friends during the engagement period.
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 15, 2024 0:00:59 GMT
I really wanted to see Maria call him Georg as well, or hear an "I love you" from her too. I know as said it was implied in the kiss and also in Something Good, and the conversation with Liesl in the Sixteen Going on Seventeen reprise, but I really would have loved to hear the words. Also I love that he calls her "my love" in the gazebo scene. Like that shit made me swoon so hard. Something else I liked was her calling Max by his name and vice versa it shows they probably became closer as friends during the engagement period. Great observations, and aren’t we lucky to have fanfic??
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