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Post by lemacd on Oct 26, 2021 1:31:07 GMT
What are the odds that 6 out of the 7 kids are petrified of the thunderstorm? Ok, lame question. But seriously... Another thing that happens at this stage is that Maria invites them up on her bed and someone, I can't remember... Brigitta maybe? says, "really?" to which Maria answers, "Just this once". I feel like this was just one more clue that the children were not accustomed to such gestures of affection. Clearly running to their father while frightened was out of the question. What if they had tried that, what would he have said? Did they try climbing into bed with their father during a previous thunderstorm, do you think? Thoughts?
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 26, 2021 22:09:08 GMT
Maybe having 6 or 7 kids in her bed every time there was a thunderstorm was what sent off Fraulein Josephine?
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Post by lemacd on Oct 27, 2021 5:45:32 GMT
One kid turns into an octopus when they climb into bed with parents. Throw in some spiders and Fraulein Josephine is probably permanently cracked.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 27, 2021 10:55:53 GMT
Or maybe it's the spark of affection Maria had kindled with them during dinner that sends them to her? Or maybe if they had been getting all the affection they craved during the day, they wouldn't have been so scared? (I know, that seems unfair because the fear of those storms is very real). Yes, they should have felt that they could have gone to their father - although this gets back to the whole floor plan thing, maybe he is off in some less accessible suite? how far away is Maria? I need to go look at the floor plan).
I find that "just this once" can be reused in fanfics in all sorts of juicy ways.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 27, 2021 14:53:32 GMT
Or maybe it's the spark of affection Maria had kindled with them during dinner that sends them to her? Or maybe if they had been getting all the affection they craved during the day, they wouldn't have been so scared? (I know, that seems unfair because the fear of those storms is very real). Yes, they should have felt that they could have gone to their father - although this gets back to the whole floor plan thing, maybe he is off in some less accessible suite? how far away is Maria? I need to go look at the floor plan). I find that "just this once" can be reused in fanfics in all sorts of juicy ways. All good points, and it is very likely that she was just next door and he was inaccessible (in more ways than one). And how the heck did you make 'just this once' a sexy line? You are so good at this.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 27, 2021 21:27:36 GMT
I'm not sure exactly when he was retired from the navy (IRL CvT's career ended in 1916, I believe, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed and Austria's coastal land was relinquished). Obviously the dates don't tally with the film, but if our Captain had been away in the navy a lot then the kids would not have had a chance to make that bond with him (unless he was particularly close to them when he was at home).
Maybe they have tried to get into bed with their father and been sent off in no uncertain terms? Hence their delight at Maria's acceptance of them!
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Oct 28, 2021 3:27:03 GMT
I'm not sure exactly when he was retired from the navy (IRL CvT's career ended in 1916, I believe, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed and Austria's coastal land was relinquished). Obviously the dates don't tally with the film, but if our Captain had been away in the navy a lot then the kids would not have had a chance to make that bond with him (unless he was particularly close to them when he was at home). Maybe they have tried to get into bed with their father and been sent off in no uncertain terms? Hence their delight at Maria's acceptance of them! I might be simplifying things, but I would think it comes down to fathers tended to be less emotionally availabe in that time and place in the world (though "research" seems to say he was relatively affectionate in real life), regardless of how he interacted with them in the past. Admittedly, not my preferred area of history, so I could be totally wrong. So if the children were afraid, it makes sense to seek out the closest they had to a mother figure, though that brings up the question of why not seeking out Frau Schmidt, who could potentially be a grandmother figure. But as a member of the household who has probably been around for a while, does that compartmentalize her in their minds? But then again, Maria has already half-protected, half-guilted them over their behavior and perhaps given them a glimmer of... something else. Although a 14 year-old boy being scared of a thunderstorm is a bit much. (I might be biased as a US Midwest raised person who was taken outside as a little kid under the eaves so I wouldn't be afraid of them.) Suspension of disbelief...every musical requires that.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2021 10:57:36 GMT
Or maybe it's the spark of affection Maria had kindled with them during dinner that sends them to her? Or maybe if they had been getting all the affection they craved during the day, they wouldn't have been so scared? (I know, that seems unfair because the fear of those storms is very real). Yes, they should have felt that they could have gone to their father - although this gets back to the whole floor plan thing, maybe he is off in some less accessible suite? how far away is Maria? I need to go look at the floor plan). I find that "just this once" can be reused in fanfics in all sorts of juicy ways. All good points, and it is very likely that she was just next door and he was inaccessible (in more ways than one). And how the heck did you make 'just this once' a sexy line? You are so good at this. what I am is sick.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2021 10:58:44 GMT
I'm not sure exactly when he was retired from the navy (IRL CvT's career ended in 1916, I believe, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed and Austria's coastal land was relinquished). Obviously the dates don't tally with the film, but if our Captain had been away in the navy a lot then the kids would not have had a chance to make that bond with him (unless he was particularly close to them when he was at home). Maybe they have tried to get into bed with their father and been sent off in no uncertain terms? Hence their delight at Maria's acceptance of them! I might be simplifying things, but I would think it comes down to fathers tended to be less emotionally availabe in that time and place in the world (though "research" seems to say he was relatively affectionate in real life), regardless of how he interacted with them in the past. Admittedly, not my preferred area of history, so I could be totally wrong. So if the children were afraid, it makes sense to seek out the closest they had to a mother figure, though that brings up the question of why not seeking out Frau Schmidt, who could potentially be a grandmother figure. But as a member of the household who has probably been around for a while, does that compartmentalize her in their minds? But then again, Maria has already half-protected, half-guilted them over their behavior and perhaps given them a glimmer of... something else. Although a 14 year-old boy being scared of a thunderstorm is a bit much. (I might be biased as a US Midwest raised person who was taken outside as a little kid under the eaves so I wouldn't be afraid of them.) Suspension of disbelief...every musical requires that. interesting question to ponder re: Frau Schmidt, since she seems to be in charge when there's no governess - how close are they to her, is she fond of them, etc.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 28, 2021 22:59:49 GMT
I think Frau Schmidt is a very underrated figure.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2021 23:39:31 GMT
I think Frau Schmidt is a very underrated figure. more please!
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 29, 2021 23:43:30 GMT
augiesannie , I am currently working on your suggestion of looking at contrasting points of view in Vienna - Frau Schmidt will have to wait!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 1, 2021 19:47:53 GMT
There is no way that these kids ran to their father when they were scared in the night. I don't think he has shown them any affection in years (which is why the scene where they converge on him after they all sing TSOM is so powerful). My guess is that Gretl usually goes to Liesl, and since she was not in her bed, she ran for the governess. Looking at the floor plans, Georg's room would be much closer, as he in the family side of the house and Maria is over on the staff side, but like I said, I don't think their father was ever considered. So Gretl gets up and makes a run for it. She says that everyone else is asleep and not scared, so I think that her running out of the room woke up the other girls, who then realized it was storming and got scared too. The boys are a little tougher. There is no way 14 year old Freidrich was scared enough of storms to run for the governess's room, but maybe the boys heard the commotion of everyone leaving the girls' room, so they got up and followed.
They were clearly shocked that they got invited to cuddle with Maria. I bet all of the previous governesses were either not that nurturing, or too scared of not following the captain's discipline rules to let them all stay and talk about their favorite things. I don't know if they would consider going to Frau Schmidt or not. They had to be close to her. Though, there might be a line there that doesn't get crossed after hours.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 1, 2021 20:42:49 GMT
And even if you did think that Gretl would go to her father (which I don't), he isn't in his bedroom at this point, so she would still have to go to Maria. As Indigo brilliantly pointed out in the thunderstorm thread, Georg is likely in his study, which according to the floor plans, is under Maria's room. This is how he knows/hears that the children are out of bed and comes to investigate what is going on.
Though maybe how Georg fits into this scene is best left to the next screen cap...
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 4, 2021 0:28:06 GMT
It's very likely that Frau Schmidt, as staff, has her own flat/suite on the next floor up, where the family would never go (staff quarters), so less likely they would venture up if they were scared - and especially without Liesl.
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Nov 5, 2021 3:41:50 GMT
It's very likely that Frau Schmidt, as staff, has her own flat/suite on the next floor up, where the family would never go (staff quarters), so less likely they would venture up if they were scared - and especially without Liesl. I think that's a fair assessment, on the whole. She's supposed to keep the household under lock and key, not worry about the children due to the apparent insistence that they should have a governess. In the end, it is an employer-employee relationship. Her behavior to the children would certainly be friendly--members of the household she's charged with preventing from falling apart due to the circumstances the story opens with--but much beyond that really is speculation. And how little she's actually seen in the movie...If she was an important figure in the children's lives in some way other than, "You make sure the house doesn't fall apart", why don't we see more of her. Whilst the children are coming back to a good relationship with their father and developing a relationship with Maria, if they had a good relationship with Frau Schmidt already, it would only become better, and it doesn't seem to be a thing. She so fades into the background. Wonder what interactions would have gone on between her and Maria, though, and again, still reading her memoir/autobiography, so...interesting.
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Post by augiesannie on Nov 14, 2021 1:00:36 GMT
It's very likely that Frau Schmidt, as staff, has her own flat/suite on the next floor up, where the family would never go (staff quarters), so less likely they would venture up if they were scared - and especially without Liesl. I think that's a fair assessment, on the whole. She's supposed to keep the household under lock and key, not worry about the children due to the apparent insistence that they should have a governess. In the end, it is an employer-employee relationship. Her behavior to the children would certainly be friendly--members of the household she's charged with preventing from falling apart due to the circumstances the story opens with--but much beyond that really is speculation. And how little she's actually seen in the movie...If she was an important figure in the children's lives in some way other than, "You make sure the house doesn't fall apart", why don't we see more of her. Whilst the children are coming back to a good relationship with their father and developing a relationship with Maria, if they had a good relationship with Frau Schmidt already, it would only become better, and it doesn't seem to be a thing. She so fades into the background. Wonder what interactions would have gone on between her and Maria, though, and again, still reading her memoir/autobiography, so...interesting. although in the absence of a governess, she seems to have some responsibility for them - she sends them off on their walk after all.
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Nov 14, 2021 1:12:54 GMT
augiesannie True, but it rather seems a matter of expedience, just in the absence of a governess.
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Post by missisa on Nov 21, 2021 15:52:07 GMT
I think a storm can be very scary... so I accept that some 14-year-olds feel fear; anyway, I would say that it is nothing more than an "excuse" to test Maria, since they have had a somewhat disconcerting experience during dinner but they see that she may be a person to trust. On the other hand, I believe the Captain was not a very accessible person at the time, although perhaps in the past they would have shared moments of "all together in bed" as a family (with Agathe), and therefore the Children associated that moment / game with something comforting. Let's not forget that the Captain must have been a loving person in the past, otherwise, this scene would not make any sense (see attachment). Attachments:
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 21, 2021 21:47:34 GMT
I am absolutely with you Missisa that the captain was loving and affectionate before Agathe died. But I think that a switch was flipped after her death and he turned into a distant tyrant of sorts as a defense mechanism to handle his grief. The picture you attached is my favorite moment of the film! I LOVE when he motions for the kids to come to him and Brigitta falls into his arms and everyone else rushes to him. I think in this moment that the switch is flipped back and he again a loving affectionate devoted father.
Maybe they are testing Maria. I never really thought about it like that. I just thought that the little ones were scared, so they ran, and the older ones wanted to know what was going on, so they followed. Then once they got to Maria's room, and she was inviting them to stay and chat, why not stay and chat. And eventually have a pillow fight and dance party = the most fun these kids have had in a long time.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 14, 2022 18:55:29 GMT
Liesl mentions that Louisa can climb up to the governess's room with a jar of spiders. Maria proceeds to check for them in her bed right before Gretl burst on to the scene. Why do you think there were no spiders? Did Maria's guilt trip about the frog at dinner (along with playing along with the pinecone) make them decide to cool it on the pranks? Was it just too wet outside to go hunting for spiders? Were 2 pranks in 1 day enough and they were holding out on spiders for another day soon? It seems like the must keep the tricks coming in quick succession if they can run a governess off in less than a day.
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Post by indigoblue on Sept 27, 2022 23:15:37 GMT
I think the frog-in-pocket was a tester to see how she would react (if she calmly took it out, then maybe they would have tried a different tack not using insects or amphibians). Also, Maria kind of touche'd them during dinner, so they didn't score there! Perhaps the kids are considering the next move.
Maria was particularly nice to Gretl ("My, you're practically a lady") and Marta ("Well pink's my favourite colour too") in the hall, so they will have bonded with her. So it was natural that Gretl and Marta ran to Maria when they were scared.
At the same time, an image of the kids running to jump into bed with their father passed through my mind, but it was funny because Elsa was in bed there too...somehow I don't think they would have tried that again!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Sept 29, 2022 19:10:41 GMT
At the same time, an image of the kids running to jump into bed with their father passed through my mind, but it was funny because Elsa was in bed there too...somehow I don't think they would have tried that again! LOL. The boarding school plans would have moved up the priority list after that.
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Post by missisa on Oct 2, 2022 20:24:00 GMT
😂😂😂😂😂 this made my week
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