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Post by Chris&Byng on Nov 18, 2023 2:35:13 GMT
When Georg says "You have already, more than you know" what do you think he means by that exactly? He knows she saw what just happened in the sitting room. She knows how desperately his children needed that or she wouldn't have been shouting at him about it the moment before. What do you think is affected that she doesn't know about? How deeply he himself has been healed? Awesome, awesome, awesome question (swoon... )!!!
I think i am going to answer the question by asking a question: "If i could be of any help"... ...do you think that Maria is just saying this because it's socially the right thing to say? Does she not realize how much Georg has changed in those short moments? or is it more about wanting to being useful (i.e. I've pledged my life to God..I've pledged my life to His service) to the Captain? I think the 'motives' in Maria's words would influence what Georg means by his, if that makes sense. Maybe there are no motives, after all she admits to saying whatever she thinks and feels!
I am not sure what to make of Maria's "intention"; my gut says it's just socially the right thing for her to say after she realizes the amount of turmoil she has caused in a matter of minutes, but is she also is answering Georg's request about agreeing to stay. She didn't ever say "yes, of course I will stay"; he asked her to stay, she says "If I can be of any help"...like, "only if you feel I am more helpful than troublesome", which she probably always heard at the Abbey (DC al Coda previous paragraph hahaha)...
Georg's "you have already": I think we can take at face value...i.e. you have re-tied the strings that join Georg to his kids and brought them back together, that he doesn't know them, that he misses them...
The "more than you know" has multiple meanings depending on how G & M's relationship develops in your version of canon. I don't think he's in love with her here, but he's attracted physically and emotionally, and very intrigued. The fact that she had done all this work in his absence, broke all the rules, etc. AND managed to bring him and the children back together AND impress Elsa... she's a mystery to him. A siren, of sorts...
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Post by augiesannie on Nov 27, 2023 18:44:49 GMT
I love this point about how his behavior changes when he starts to take notice of her effect of the children. I went back to watch the dinner scene, when the children weep and wail with guilt and all he can do is look disgusted and pick up his fork. And love t he list of parallels Chris&Byng! reverendcaptain, as far as your question, this is probably what you are thinking too - I think he is realizing just how bad things have gotten so that she has made an enormous difference. It might be just as accurate for him to say, “more than I would have imagined possible” or something.
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 27, 2023 23:33:13 GMT
Do you think she has (so to speak) held a mirror up to him, and for the first time he has realised how introspective and morose he has become? Maybe if he was ok with himself before Agathe died, and he was very successful militarily, it hadn't occurred to him that HE might be the problem?
"You have, more than you know" is a slightly evasive response which doesn't invite her to ask how it has helped; do you think he says that because it has been such an intense personal realisation for him that he doesn't want to expose more of himself to her at the moment? But we see from his subsequent demeanour and body language that a penny has dropped deep in his mind. Maybe she has taught him the power of self-examination?
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Post by Chris&Byng on Nov 28, 2023 1:16:49 GMT
Do you think she has (so to speak) held a mirror up to him, and for the first time he has realised how introspective and morose he has become? Maybe if he was ok with himself before Agathe died, and he was very successful militarily, it hadn't occurred to him that HE might be the problem? "You have, more than you know" is a slightly evasive response which doesn't invite her to ask how it has helped; do you think he says that because it has been such an intense personal realisation for him that he doesn't want to expose more of himself to her at the moment? But we see from his subsequent demeanour and body language that a penny has dropped deep in his mind. Maybe she has taught him the power of self-examination? This is a neat angle... So much has changed in so little time...he just had Maria tell him what a $hit he has been, he fired her, he hears the children singing, and then POOF something hits him. Maybe it's not the 7 faces of his wife or the return of music, maybe it is a "what the hell have I been doing?" moment as you have suggested. It could be SO many things, but you know it's profound given how quickly it happened (unless there was some communication between the villa and Vienna. Kind of like IDontKnowYourSignal's Black Swan where Georg speaks to Maria on the phone? There could be a story about this point in the movie that is made up of a dozen (or more) possibilities That's what makes it so fun.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 2, 2023 1:32:41 GMT
I think the “more than you know” means that even though she just saw him reunite with his children after years of dysfunction, it was just the tip of the iceberg as far as what was happening inside him. He didn’t just change how he interacts with his children, he changed how he felt about his life. The weight he was carrying on his shoulders every second of the day was lifted in a way that she couldn’t possibly understand.
As for “if I could be of any help”, I think that was her way of showing that she appreciated his apology and humble asking of her to stay. She could have replied with something else harsh about how terrible he has been to his children, but she was smart enough to know that this wasn’t necessarily any more, or maybe just moved enough to not react with anything but kindness. He has changed in how he is speaking to her, so she has changed in how she is speaking to him too.
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 2, 2023 23:35:21 GMT
This is why this whole love story is so engaging...it is about intriguing character progressions, as well as simple romance.
Even Elsa reveals a vulnerable side, and Max puts himself in real danger supporting the family at the concert.
Franz takes a turn for the worse - only Frau Schmidt remains the same!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 6, 2023 22:17:40 GMT
What do think Frau Schmidt’s reaction to the captain marrying the governess was? She was never thrilled with Elsa, but did she approve of Maria? You are right, we never got the chance to see character progression from her.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 11, 2023 19:24:10 GMT
I just want to call out something Chris&Byng said above that just registered with me: that Maria’s “if I can be of any use” also reflects a certain lack of self confidence, that she thinks of herself as a disruptive troublemaker and may not yet understand as clearly as he does, how she’s able to be helpful. She’s all instinct.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 11, 2023 19:26:07 GMT
What do think Frau Schmidt’s reaction to the captain marrying the governess was? She was never thrilled with Elsa, but did she approve of Maria? You are right, we never got the chance to see character progression from her. I bet Maria had the emotional intelligence to not get in FS’ way so I bet FS liked her.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 2, 2024 0:30:38 GMT
What do you think dinner was like this evening? The captain has been gone for weeks and is now back, there are 2 guests in the house, the whole dynamic between the captain and his children has changed, the whole dynamic between the captain and Maria has changed. I just wonder what the dinner conversation was. Did the mood remain light (as I assume it had been while the captain was away and days were filled with picnics and singing)? Was it awkward because no one knows how to act around Elsa? Was it awkward because the children and the captain are both trying to figure out where they stand with each other? Was seamlessly awesome because everyone has so longed for the relationship bonds to be reestablished?
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 15, 2024 0:16:34 GMT
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 18, 2024 19:28:14 GMT
Awesome story!! You tied up all of the loose ends! I especially like at the breaks where you have a new person feeling the same thing as the person you just ended with.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Mar 27, 2024 23:33:59 GMT
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 27, 2024 23:52:21 GMT
That is very kind of you but I did not mean to distract from reverendcaptain’s excellent questions which deserve further discussion.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 1, 2024 23:52:05 GMT
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 11, 2024 0:15:18 GMT
I was just thinking that in the hall when they first meet, he moves around a lot and talks a lot, then as you say, in the dinner scene, he is distracted and a bit exasperated. Then in the Thunderstorm scene, he is noticeably still and glares at her all the time, and also in the amazing Apology. Do you think that, in the Thunderstorm scene, seeing how the kids are drawn to her in such a way that they have clambered onto her bed, this is the first time that he realises her magnetism - both for them, and for him? Is he rather transfixed by her in her humble way (especially being simply dressed and barefoot)? I suppose he didn't realise his kids were scared by the thunder, so here is a plain display of how he had failed them; not something he would have wanted to acknowledge at that point, but something that he had to take on board. Maybe the once-over look really is him checking her out (in secret)! Oh I love this idea that the way the children are drawn to Maria is also a parallel universe to Georg's attraction and feelings overall. (This really fits well with everything else, as I was always interested in what was going on in his head here. Maria turns away from him to pick up her housecoat and seemingly "cover up" and in that very moment we see Georg giving her a good once-over!)
I guess also, we could draw these parallels to other parts of the movie (i.e. the children singing again represents the return of music to the house for the kids and for Georg; the puppet show "joy" of the children is echoed by Georg; the sadness and trepidation of the children at the news of the Baroness becoming their new mother is echoed by Georg; the joy at Maria's return, etc...)
Maybe Georg realises he is always playing catch-up with his children - they are in fact leading the way, and he needs to get ahead too. Do you think this is what he meant by "More than you would know"?
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