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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 4, 2024 22:53:22 GMT
I like that he admits that he has been dishonest with himself as well augiesannie. Though, about what exactly? This line needs a deeper dive. "I've been dishonest. To both of us." He has been dishonest with Elsa because he has led her to believe that it could work out between then when he has known for a long time that it couldn't. Since before he proposed even? What has he been dishonest to himself about? The depth of feeling he has for Maria?
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 16, 2024 15:22:33 GMT
Yes, that reverendcaptain, and maybe also he’s lied to himself about the fact that he can in fact love someone else besides his late wife.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 20, 2024 1:19:53 GMT
Ooh, I love this! Yes! He’s been telling himself all along that this friendship/business partnership with Elsa is all he can hope for. Then in waltzes Maria, and his world is flipped upside down. He’s in love with her, but…he can’t be…he’ll never love again after what he’s lost…it must be something else…it’s gratitude…except it isn’t…he’s in love with her.
It would be easy to lie to oneself in this situation.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 22, 2024 1:12:46 GMT
Maybe also he went through a phase of thinking himself that Maria was just a temporary infatuation, and that as his relationship with Elsa matured, he would get over Maria...except he didn't. That would give him reason to say that he had been dishonest with both her and himself.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 22, 2024 20:45:58 GMT
Thinking about this dishonesty with himself in phases is a good idea, Indigo.
Phase 1 could be telling himself he would never love again because he is too heartbroken over Agathe. Phase 2 could be telling himself his crush on Maria was harmless and temporary. Phase 3 could be telling himself that they could never be together because of social standing. Phase 4 could be telling himself that he'd get over her after she left for the abbey. Phase 5 could be telling himself that he can't be with her even though she's back because he's already engaged.
What am I missing?
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 22, 2024 22:35:48 GMT
Thinking about this dishonesty with himself in phases is a good idea, Indigo. Phase 1 could be telling himself he would never love again because he is too heartbroken over Agathe. Phase 2 could be telling himself his crush on Maria was harmless and temporary. Phase 3 could be telling himself that they could never be together because of social standing. Phase 4 could be telling himself that he'd get over her after she left for the abbey. Phase 5 could be telling himself that he can't be with her even though she's back because he's already engaged. What am I missing? This is a good roadmap that reminds us just how much turmoil is going on behind that perfectly smooth and controlled demeanor. I imagine one could blend Elsa in there, as suggested by indigoblue. …
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 22, 2024 23:56:35 GMT
You are right. Elsa would be somehow woven into most if not all of these. Guilt that he's crushing on Maria with Elsa in the house. Confusion that he feels so differently about Maria than he does about Elsa. Understanding that Elsa is the perfect match for him socially. Willing himself to see all of the positive qualities Elsa has for him and his children. Guilt about stringing her along when his heart wasn't in it. And much more.
I think he sincerely feels bad about being dishonest when breaking up with her.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 30, 2024 0:52:15 GMT
What about him thinking 'a military hero like me should have a wife of equivalent cachet'? I suppose it's like the social standing phase outlined above, but also has something in it which reflects how he feels about himself, not just a hierarchical thing?
- Maybe he has an over-inflated view of himself from all the hoohaa about his military success (as detailed by Rolf). That would fit with him saying he had been dishonest with himself (ie thinking he was such a great star), and was going for Elsa to bolster that idea. But meeting Maria had made him realise how unlike that he really was underneath, so he says to Elsa that he has been dishonest with her about why he wanted to marry her.
Poor Elsa! What a complicated man!
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jan 31, 2024 0:50:05 GMT
You are right. Elsa would be somehow woven into most if not all of these. Guilt that he's crushing on Maria with Elsa in the house. Confusion that he feels so differently about Maria than he does about Elsa. Understanding that Elsa is the perfect match for him socially. Willing himself to see all of the positive qualities Elsa has for him and his children. Guilt about stringing her along when his heart wasn't in it. And much more. I think he sincerely feels bad about being dishonest when breaking up with her. Do you wonder (well, I wonder...) if the whole conversation "I've been dishonest"...was Georg trying to get a confession out of Elsa? Sure, he's been dishonest for the reasons you have mentioned, but does he have a clue that she has been dishonest as well and it's a segue into a discussion about truth and loyalty in relationships? Which, of course, turns out differently than what he was expecting. Especially when Elsa bows out on her own and then tells him Maria loves him and he should get going...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 6, 2024 19:47:50 GMT
You are right. Elsa would be somehow woven into most if not all of these. Guilt that he's crushing on Maria with Elsa in the house. Confusion that he feels so differently about Maria than he does about Elsa. Understanding that Elsa is the perfect match for him socially. Willing himself to see all of the positive qualities Elsa has for him and his children. Guilt about stringing her along when his heart wasn't in it. And much more. I think he sincerely feels bad about being dishonest when breaking up with her. Do you wonder (well, I wonder...) if the whole conversation "I've been dishonest"...was Georg trying to get a confession out of Elsa? Sure, he's been dishonest for the reasons you have mentioned, but does he have a clue that she has been dishonest as well and it's a segue into a discussion about truth and loyalty in relationships? Which, of course, turns out differently than what he was expecting. Especially when Elsa bows out on her own and then tells him Maria loves him and he should get going... Confession about scaring Maria off? Or confession about not actually wanting to live in the country and have 7 children? Does he know about both of these already?
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Post by Chris&Byng on Feb 7, 2024 1:36:52 GMT
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 22, 2024 19:38:19 GMT
I always think about the difference between dishonest to both of us, vs. unfair just to Elsa. I mean, it’s a lovely turn of phrase, but it’s also very gentlemanly to try and take on more of the blame himself especially when as pointed out above, she is not blameless.
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