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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 20, 2023 0:55:31 GMT
Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere else...but today I was taking a break at work and this question just popped in my head.
Did Elsa actually love Georg?
There was a post on Facebook today (the S&M page for augiesannie and reverendcaptain  ) about how or if our perceptions of Elsa have changed as we got older. I was reading the comments people had left and this lead me to the question I am posting today. Some people felt that she loved him enough to let him go, she bowed out with class, etc. I was struck down with the idea that perhaps she never actually was in love-love with him. Granted, she loved the idea of him, and what being seen with him (being married to a great naval hero) would mean to her as a society woman, how others would perceive her. She didn't like the countryside nor the children, so it's not like she loved the whole man that was Georg (how many couples do you know where someone picks up the other partner's hobby because they love the whole package, even if several years late ryou find out they didn't like it?) . I think she cared for him deeply, but was she really ga-ga for Georg? I am of two minds...
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Apr 20, 2023 12:56:34 GMT
I lean toward the camp of, "She really cared for Georg, but didn't quite properly love him." (Whtaever that last bit really means...) While there is something to be said for loving someone enough that you're willing to let them go because it's best for that person despite what it will do to you, I don't think that's the case for Elsa. She does bow out, but it comes very quickly and easily, almost as though it's saving face rather than respecting the fact that neither of them would be able to entirely make the other properly happy. She very clearly sees the growing attraction between Maria and Georg, but her first instinct is to try and force his hand, albeit it somewhat gently by "suggesting" the party. I'm not sure what other paths there would have been for her in that moment, especially as a woman who seems used to getting what she wants. I guess that, if she did truly love him, she would have left the picture earlier, rather than making the situation more complicated and painful. As always, just my two dead presidents.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 20, 2023 19:21:44 GMT
I think she wanted to love him, and I think if he had shown any sign of letting his guard down and loving her in return, she would have been all in. Though, they never got there. I imagine in a world of marriages arranged for power, with "friends" who are ever-ready to pounce on the latest gossip or misfortune of anyone in the group, it would be hard to ever trust anyone enough to actually love them. Then she finds this man who is obviously capable of love, as he is heartbroken over his dead wife, but she doesn't know how to get him to open up. There is one look I really like during the lakeside chat. The screencap I found is not the perfect capture of the look, but it is close. I'll post a link to it below. Georg has just said that it was her that brought some meaning back into his life, and she give this little shy appreciative smile. I think a lot of this chat is both of them posturing to give and get the information they want. But this look seems genuine to me. It makes me think that she could actually fall in love with him if he trusted her enough to do the same. movie-screencaps.com/the-sound-of-music-1965/page/42#foobox-1/89/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-7470.jpg?ssl=1Has Elsa ever been in love before Georg? |
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 23, 2023 23:43:12 GMT
I think that Georg ticked so many boxes for Elsa in so many ways, except that vital one where you understand where each other is coming from. Hence her comment 'You're such a riddle, Georg'. So while she tried so hard for it to work, it must have seemed that for every advance she made, when Maria was around, she slipped back two. So I think she wanted to love him, but found the door to his mind forever shut.
I have a feeling that Elsa had been in love before Georg, but not necessarily with her husband. Maybe she had 'played away' and tasted that sweet feeling, the same feeling she was trying in vain to capture with Georg. Poor Elsa! Hope she found happiness elsewhere.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 24, 2023 23:08:48 GMT
Thanks everyone for your two cents and dead presidents! So much to think about and I know the "look" you are referring to quite well reverendcaptain . It's kind of bashful and almost self-deprecating (if that makes sense). Elsa always seemed to be someone who always got what she wanted - and for her to lose or even come close to losing was an alien emotion for her. Like when she 'got rid of Maria' and gushed to Max that she "felt like celebrating". Like, she had won the world series and not the heart of a man, kind of celebrating. I wonder how much of what she said to Maria in the bedroom (he'll get over it soon enough) is based on her own personal experience vs. words to frighten Maria away. She's such a complicated character beyond the obvious things we think about. I think she wanted to love him, and I think if he had shown any sign of letting his guard down and loving her in return, she would have been all in. Though, they never got there. I imagine in a world of marriages arranged for power, with "friends" who are ever-ready to pounce on the latest gossip or misfortune of anyone in the group, it would be hard to ever trust anyone enough to actually love them. Then she finds this man who is obviously capable of love, as he is heartbroken over his dead wife, but she doesn't know how to get him to open up. There is one look I really like during the lakeside chat. The screencap I found is not the perfect capture of the look, but it is close. I'll post a link to it below. Georg has just said that it was her that brought some meaning back into his life, and she give this little shy appreciative smile. I think a lot of this chat is both of them posturing to give and get the information they want. But this look seems genuine to me. It makes me think that she could actually fall in love with him if he trusted her enough to do the same. movie-screencaps.com/the-sound-of-music-1965/page/42#foobox-1/89/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-7470.jpg?ssl=1 |
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 30, 2023 19:23:11 GMT
I pretty much agreed with what everyone said in this thread. The screencap makes sense of an Elsa who COULD love Georg, and who likes to win, but can’t ignore the reality that he is such a riddle (and has his eye on the governess. I have to think more about Elsa’s behavior in the bedroom though, in light of that complexity, , Chris&Byng has given me something to think about there. |
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Post by Chris&Byng on May 1, 2023 23:56:43 GMT
I pretty much agreed with what everyone said in this thread. The screencap makes sense of an Elsa who COULD love Georg, and who likes to win, but can’t ignore the reality that he is such a riddle (and has his eye on the governess. I have to think more about Elsa’s behavior in the bedroom though, in light of that complexity, , Chris&Byng has given me something to think about there. haha augiesannie I love that you're thinking. The last time I made you think, you wrote an awesome story |
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) about how or if our perceptions of Elsa have changed as we got older. I was reading the comments people had left and this lead me to the question I am posting today. Some people felt that she loved him enough to let him go, she bowed out with class, etc. I was struck down with the idea that perhaps she never actually was in love-love with him. Granted, she loved the idea of him, and what being seen with him (being married to a great naval hero) would mean to her as a society woman, how others would perceive her. She didn't like the countryside nor the children, so it's not like she loved the whole man that was Georg (how many couples do you know where someone picks up the other partner's hobby because they love the whole package, even if several years late ryou find out they didn't like it?) . I think she cared for him deeply, but was she really ga-ga for Georg? I am of two minds...
