Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 27, 2023 19:19:51 GMT
I’ve decided that I need to stop muddying the water over in the Laendler thread with my rants about this scene, because they really don’t belong there. Plus, having a separate thread allows people who are tired of my obsession over this to easily not look at it. I apologize in advance for the length of this post. This scene just bothers me so much!
Ok. I can’t properly vent about “you can if you want to fraulein” without first discussing the Laendler (which is why I was continuing to post about it in that thread). The Laendler is so pivotal. G&M have realized that they were too close, M backs away, my current theory is that M is the first to give a reassuring smile, a smile that they both end up sharing. Then Maria flees at her first opportunity and Georg has to navigate the awkward “seemed rather warm to me” conversation with Elsa. The children’s song saves him from having to continue talking to Elsa, and is also darling. The delicious stare down while the guests are occupied waving goodbye to the children follows. That looks says “Things have changed between us. We are no longer just friends” to me. Then both G&M are distracted by different people wanting to compliment them on the children’s performance.
Let’s look at this next bit from everyone’s perspective.
Enter Max, who likely knows that Maria being at the party will infuriate Elsa (hence his comment to her that “this is business”). Who also likely knows that Georg can not refuse his request without making a scene if he (Max) continues to insist. Max is all about his own interests, so he practically drags Maria back from her walk upstairs and presents her to Georg for permission to join the party, all the while shushing her protests about not wanting to be there. With Georg saying “you can if you want to” (which is not a no), he insists that she stay and immediately summons Franz to set a place for her at the table, therefore making this decision final. He then does nothing but smile at everyone else’s uncomfortable exchanges. From his perspective, he has worked this situation brilliantly. So the question is, why did he want her at dinner? Just to try to talk her into “using her influence with Georg” to get the children in the festival? Is the middle of a party the best place to do that? Was he bored with the stuffy Salzburg crowd and wanted an entertaining dinner partner? Was he trying to help Maria see that she belonged in the party scene, not the convent? He isn’t secretly playing matchmaker between G&M, is he?? I don’t think so. He is still too loyal to Elsa and the “keep all the lovely money in the family” plan.
On to poor Elsa. This is finally her night to shine. She is glitzy and glamourous and ready to dazzle all of Salzburg. Though, so far, she has walked in on her boyfriend dancing with the governess, had to endure a children’s performance during an adult party, witnessed the intense stare down, and now is navigating having to sit with the governess at dinner. To start, she doesn’t look concerned about Max wanting to invite Maria to dinner at all. She must have thought this idea preposterous, and therefore not worth even acknowledging…until Georg says yes! Her expression goes from calm to murderous after “you can if you want to fraulein”. I’m sure she would have thought Georg would say no to this because a) the governess has no place at the party and b) he just got caught intimately dancing with the governess, how could he possibly think it was not demeaning to Elsa to now invite the governess to the party? Still, it is Max that is doing the insisting, and she seems to compose herself while silently fuming. Then, Georg gives the (what he hopes was a secret) head nod to Franz, approving him setting a place for Maria at dinner, and Elsa can’t decide who to look at as she glances back and forth between them in disbelief. Add in Georg's "It seems to be all arranged then", as if he had nothing to do with what is happening, and she must now think Georg is not indifferent, but actually wants Maria at the party! What else could happen between them if this took place? They have already been so bold! And in front of all of Salzburg! This has to be heartbreaking for her, though she forces a smile through “it certainly does”. Her expressions in this whole scene speak volumes. After the exchange, Elsa takes a step toward Georg as Maria leaves. Any thoughts on what she might have said to him? She let him off pretty easily after the Laendler. Was she going to be more clear with her displeasure now? Or would that have caused too much of a scene if overheard? Once she sees that he is occupied with other guests, she quickly changes her mind and begins slinking away upstairs after Maria. Does she think Georg loves Maria or is just flirting with her? Just flirting, right? Though, how does she reconcile that this man can’t ever open up with her because he is so distraught over the death of his wife, yet he so easily falls into smiles, dances, and across the room stare downs with the governess??
On to poor Maria. The Laendler was unexpected and overwhelming. The children’s performance was probably stressful, but turned out beautifully. The stare down was beyond intense. She is ready to go upstairs and process this all in peace until Max grabs her. She is protesting all the while he is leading her back into the hall, and even more so after he tells Georg that she should join the party. She looks so panicked and overwhelmed (and Georg clearly sees this! But I’m not to my thoughts on him yet). Then Georg answers Max’s pleas with “you can if you want to fraulein”. I know, I know, this sounds like he is leaving it up to her. But he isn’t. Anything short of “no” is in invitation for Max to keep badgering until she is expected at dinner. In reality, she has already said no, with her words, actions, and expressions, but no one really cares what she wants here. It is all about Max asking Georg if someone at her station is allowed to stay. They are deciding for her with no regard for her desire to leave. I feel terrible for her. She actually seems to deflate with defeat after “I insist. You will be my dinner partner.” Then she’s just resigned to her fate while the Franz exchange is happening. She gives one final attempt to get out of it with “I’m not suitably dressed”, which Georg dismisses as something they’ll wait for her to handle. Ug. As with Elsa, Maria’s expressions speak volumes here, as does her hand on her head as she turns to leave. She never had a chance. It really wouldn’t be her place to outright say “No. I don’t want to. Leave me alone. I’m going to bed” after this whole exchange. It probably would have been considered rude (and still may not have deterred Max). Though, forcing someone to attend a party they don’t want to go to is actually the rude action here. She has to be so confused. If I were her, I would be wondering why, after everything that just transpired between them, did the captain just let that happen? She knew he saw her desperate expression for help. I would be wondering if I was misreading anything and everything. I would also be wondering what in the world I was changing into for dinner!
Now on to Georg. Oh, Georg. I just can’t. Maria has done so much for him that day alone! The children were well behaved and entertained during the party, she agreed to dance with him and ended up comforting him at the end when it got too intense for either to handle, she made him look so good in front of his guests with the darling nighttime performance by his children, she left him with a smoldering look and all of the possibilities that this look could mean. Not to mention all of the things she has done for him in the past. Then, when she needed him most, when she was being dragged into a situation that she clearly did not want to be in, was both verbally protesting, and giving actions and expressions of distress, and he was the only one that could make things right by her, what did he do? A dismissive “you can if you want to fraulein” before literally turning his back on her to chat with some random guest. GEORG!!! WTF?? He’s the captain of this ship! Why did he not give a direct response to rescue her?! “Fraulein Maria is needed to help get the children settled down tonight, Max. I’m sure you can discuss the children’s performance with her tomorrow.” Then if Max insisted, he could just repeat himself. She’s needed with the children. I don’t think this sounds suspicious if overheard. He is the master of the house, and is simply informing a guest and an employee of the expected course of action. Did he want her at the party?? Is that why he is staying part of the conversation, to make sure Franz gets his approval, instead of fully giving his attention to his other guests who are trying desperately to pull him away? Is that why he didn’t say no even though she clearly wanted him to say no? Or was he afraid Max would not take no for an answer, and it would look scandalous for him to be caring so much about the governess if they had to keep discussing it in front of the other guests? Surely, he wasn’t thinking of Elsa or he would have quickly come up with a solid “no” excuse. Though, I’m sure he wanted to look indifferent in front of her because of the Laendler fallout that had just occurred. Still, “no” seems better than indifferent to me if pleasing Elsa was the goal. And what’s with “You can change. We’ll wait for you”? He knows she doesn’t have a ballgown! He bought the material for all of her dresses! He is putting her in a position that she can’t possibly succeed in only to save himself.
Bottom line. I know he needs to be a proper aristocratic party host and feign indifference about the governess. I know Elsa is already suspicious of him. I know Max is clever and persistent. But Maria has saved his family, transformed his household, and touched his heart. She has supported and guided him through the unfamiliar territory of healing himself and his relationship with his children, and has asked nothing in return. Now she is the one in unfamiliar territory, and needs his support. She is in a position that makes her feel helpless, and is only trying to avoid a later situation that would make her feel less than she is (to borrow a line from later in the film). Having to navigate a grand and glorious party in her homemade governess dress with people who are ready to dislike and disapprove of her is a miserable way to spend an evening, and he knows it. He OWED her his help in this moment, and instead he did what was easiest for him. That is not how you treat someone who has earned your respect and is capturing your heart. Ever.
Whew. I feel better now. If you are still reading this rambling rant, thank you.
Ok. I can’t properly vent about “you can if you want to fraulein” without first discussing the Laendler (which is why I was continuing to post about it in that thread). The Laendler is so pivotal. G&M have realized that they were too close, M backs away, my current theory is that M is the first to give a reassuring smile, a smile that they both end up sharing. Then Maria flees at her first opportunity and Georg has to navigate the awkward “seemed rather warm to me” conversation with Elsa. The children’s song saves him from having to continue talking to Elsa, and is also darling. The delicious stare down while the guests are occupied waving goodbye to the children follows. That looks says “Things have changed between us. We are no longer just friends” to me. Then both G&M are distracted by different people wanting to compliment them on the children’s performance.
Let’s look at this next bit from everyone’s perspective.
Enter Max, who likely knows that Maria being at the party will infuriate Elsa (hence his comment to her that “this is business”). Who also likely knows that Georg can not refuse his request without making a scene if he (Max) continues to insist. Max is all about his own interests, so he practically drags Maria back from her walk upstairs and presents her to Georg for permission to join the party, all the while shushing her protests about not wanting to be there. With Georg saying “you can if you want to” (which is not a no), he insists that she stay and immediately summons Franz to set a place for her at the table, therefore making this decision final. He then does nothing but smile at everyone else’s uncomfortable exchanges. From his perspective, he has worked this situation brilliantly. So the question is, why did he want her at dinner? Just to try to talk her into “using her influence with Georg” to get the children in the festival? Is the middle of a party the best place to do that? Was he bored with the stuffy Salzburg crowd and wanted an entertaining dinner partner? Was he trying to help Maria see that she belonged in the party scene, not the convent? He isn’t secretly playing matchmaker between G&M, is he?? I don’t think so. He is still too loyal to Elsa and the “keep all the lovely money in the family” plan.
On to poor Elsa. This is finally her night to shine. She is glitzy and glamourous and ready to dazzle all of Salzburg. Though, so far, she has walked in on her boyfriend dancing with the governess, had to endure a children’s performance during an adult party, witnessed the intense stare down, and now is navigating having to sit with the governess at dinner. To start, she doesn’t look concerned about Max wanting to invite Maria to dinner at all. She must have thought this idea preposterous, and therefore not worth even acknowledging…until Georg says yes! Her expression goes from calm to murderous after “you can if you want to fraulein”. I’m sure she would have thought Georg would say no to this because a) the governess has no place at the party and b) he just got caught intimately dancing with the governess, how could he possibly think it was not demeaning to Elsa to now invite the governess to the party? Still, it is Max that is doing the insisting, and she seems to compose herself while silently fuming. Then, Georg gives the (what he hopes was a secret) head nod to Franz, approving him setting a place for Maria at dinner, and Elsa can’t decide who to look at as she glances back and forth between them in disbelief. Add in Georg's "It seems to be all arranged then", as if he had nothing to do with what is happening, and she must now think Georg is not indifferent, but actually wants Maria at the party! What else could happen between them if this took place? They have already been so bold! And in front of all of Salzburg! This has to be heartbreaking for her, though she forces a smile through “it certainly does”. Her expressions in this whole scene speak volumes. After the exchange, Elsa takes a step toward Georg as Maria leaves. Any thoughts on what she might have said to him? She let him off pretty easily after the Laendler. Was she going to be more clear with her displeasure now? Or would that have caused too much of a scene if overheard? Once she sees that he is occupied with other guests, she quickly changes her mind and begins slinking away upstairs after Maria. Does she think Georg loves Maria or is just flirting with her? Just flirting, right? Though, how does she reconcile that this man can’t ever open up with her because he is so distraught over the death of his wife, yet he so easily falls into smiles, dances, and across the room stare downs with the governess??
On to poor Maria. The Laendler was unexpected and overwhelming. The children’s performance was probably stressful, but turned out beautifully. The stare down was beyond intense. She is ready to go upstairs and process this all in peace until Max grabs her. She is protesting all the while he is leading her back into the hall, and even more so after he tells Georg that she should join the party. She looks so panicked and overwhelmed (and Georg clearly sees this! But I’m not to my thoughts on him yet). Then Georg answers Max’s pleas with “you can if you want to fraulein”. I know, I know, this sounds like he is leaving it up to her. But he isn’t. Anything short of “no” is in invitation for Max to keep badgering until she is expected at dinner. In reality, she has already said no, with her words, actions, and expressions, but no one really cares what she wants here. It is all about Max asking Georg if someone at her station is allowed to stay. They are deciding for her with no regard for her desire to leave. I feel terrible for her. She actually seems to deflate with defeat after “I insist. You will be my dinner partner.” Then she’s just resigned to her fate while the Franz exchange is happening. She gives one final attempt to get out of it with “I’m not suitably dressed”, which Georg dismisses as something they’ll wait for her to handle. Ug. As with Elsa, Maria’s expressions speak volumes here, as does her hand on her head as she turns to leave. She never had a chance. It really wouldn’t be her place to outright say “No. I don’t want to. Leave me alone. I’m going to bed” after this whole exchange. It probably would have been considered rude (and still may not have deterred Max). Though, forcing someone to attend a party they don’t want to go to is actually the rude action here. She has to be so confused. If I were her, I would be wondering why, after everything that just transpired between them, did the captain just let that happen? She knew he saw her desperate expression for help. I would be wondering if I was misreading anything and everything. I would also be wondering what in the world I was changing into for dinner!
Now on to Georg. Oh, Georg. I just can’t. Maria has done so much for him that day alone! The children were well behaved and entertained during the party, she agreed to dance with him and ended up comforting him at the end when it got too intense for either to handle, she made him look so good in front of his guests with the darling nighttime performance by his children, she left him with a smoldering look and all of the possibilities that this look could mean. Not to mention all of the things she has done for him in the past. Then, when she needed him most, when she was being dragged into a situation that she clearly did not want to be in, was both verbally protesting, and giving actions and expressions of distress, and he was the only one that could make things right by her, what did he do? A dismissive “you can if you want to fraulein” before literally turning his back on her to chat with some random guest. GEORG!!! WTF?? He’s the captain of this ship! Why did he not give a direct response to rescue her?! “Fraulein Maria is needed to help get the children settled down tonight, Max. I’m sure you can discuss the children’s performance with her tomorrow.” Then if Max insisted, he could just repeat himself. She’s needed with the children. I don’t think this sounds suspicious if overheard. He is the master of the house, and is simply informing a guest and an employee of the expected course of action. Did he want her at the party?? Is that why he is staying part of the conversation, to make sure Franz gets his approval, instead of fully giving his attention to his other guests who are trying desperately to pull him away? Is that why he didn’t say no even though she clearly wanted him to say no? Or was he afraid Max would not take no for an answer, and it would look scandalous for him to be caring so much about the governess if they had to keep discussing it in front of the other guests? Surely, he wasn’t thinking of Elsa or he would have quickly come up with a solid “no” excuse. Though, I’m sure he wanted to look indifferent in front of her because of the Laendler fallout that had just occurred. Still, “no” seems better than indifferent to me if pleasing Elsa was the goal. And what’s with “You can change. We’ll wait for you”? He knows she doesn’t have a ballgown! He bought the material for all of her dresses! He is putting her in a position that she can’t possibly succeed in only to save himself.
Bottom line. I know he needs to be a proper aristocratic party host and feign indifference about the governess. I know Elsa is already suspicious of him. I know Max is clever and persistent. But Maria has saved his family, transformed his household, and touched his heart. She has supported and guided him through the unfamiliar territory of healing himself and his relationship with his children, and has asked nothing in return. Now she is the one in unfamiliar territory, and needs his support. She is in a position that makes her feel helpless, and is only trying to avoid a later situation that would make her feel less than she is (to borrow a line from later in the film). Having to navigate a grand and glorious party in her homemade governess dress with people who are ready to dislike and disapprove of her is a miserable way to spend an evening, and he knows it. He OWED her his help in this moment, and instead he did what was easiest for him. That is not how you treat someone who has earned your respect and is capturing your heart. Ever.
Whew. I feel better now. If you are still reading this rambling rant, thank you.