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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 22, 2023 15:00:27 GMT
We'll never really know for sure, but how do you think Agathe's parents felt about Maria?
Did they like her? She did breathe life back into Georg, which had to please them. She was doing a wonderful job caring for the children, which had to please them too. Did Georg still have contact with them after Agathe died? I know, they were still the children's grandparents, but he seemed like he cut off contact with everyone else, so maybe with them too? Maybe Maria opened the door for them to be able to see their son-in-law and grandchildren again?
Or did they not like her? She was taking Agathe's place. She was too young. Plus, she was a poor postulant governess, so clearly beneath them socially. Though, during the war, maybe social standings became less important than personal loyalties?
I have read fanfiction that has gone either way. I tend to want them to love her and the changes she has brought to the family, but sometimes noble bloodlines trumps all. What do you all think?
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Post by thoughts-of-joy-dreams-of-love on Jun 22, 2023 23:13:01 GMT
I don't think Georg would cut off Agathe's parents completely, but I can see him becoming distant. After all, he held everything that reminded him of her at arm's length, even the children, so her parents would certainly count.
As for what they think of Maria, I imagine they'd probably be suspicious at first, maybe wondering if she's after his money or if Georg has lost it by marrying someone so much younger who used to be his employee. But I like to think that the children have nice, reasonable grandparents and that they would come to accept Maria after seeing that she and Georg really are a good match.
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 29, 2023 18:10:16 GMT
This is a really good question, because I think in stories, they tend to play a functional role - they are there to be a foil or source of opposition to Maria, or alternatively to help and shelter the family. Not necessarily strong characters on their own. IRL she had a rather complicated background - which you can read about here, does this inspire any further thoughts??
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 12, 2023 14:48:53 GMT
Agathe's family seems super important/noble. I was going to ask what Agathe's parents thought of Georg, though I think this wikipedia link answers that. I have read some fanfiction that paints Georg's military career as too low class for the Whiteheads. Though, in reality, it appears that they invited Georg to vacation with them. This makes me think that he was noble enough, and they approved of him or they wouldn't have invited him to spend time with their daughter.
She had 2 babies before the war. Then during the war only saw Georg during furloughs, and in this time had 3 more kids?? That seems like a lot to manage alone..
I'm still torn on their reaction to Maria.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 18, 2023 22:28:17 GMT
Maybe the villa von Trapp was bought with Whitehead money?
Puts a certain slant on the relationship?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 20, 2023 14:40:04 GMT
Inheriting money has a funny way of making the ones giving out the money feel that they are owed something, even if there were supposedly no strings attached with the money. If Agathe's parents bought Georg's house, it would make it much harder for him to cut them off, I would think. Think of the guilt trip they could put on him.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 21, 2023 23:05:26 GMT
They might also feel they had a say in how the kids were brought up, how G was behaving etc.
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Jul 22, 2023 5:23:39 GMT
This feels quite complicated. I don't think we have any canon data to say that he totally cut off contact with them, I don't remember reading that in her books, but I suppose she that wasn't the concern in what she was writing. So we don't have any proper sources to inform the discussion, it is just speculation. I know he did write a memoir, but I don't have that book and the snippets I've found over the years aren't applicable to this discussion.
From my memory, it was only her mother alive at that point. Which drives home the reality that then, even though it was only a hundred years ago, there were so many easier ways to die. Like having a child die young...it's sad, but it happens. You move on a lot quicker than we do now. This is the best example I can come up with and I don't mean to make light of it at all. At this point in time, even the loss of a chemical pregnancy is mourned. Whereas, in the 1950s, my grandmother almost died of a septic miscarriage of twins between having my mother's two youngest siblings. Those babies were wanted--it took them twelve years to have their first kid in spite of enthusiastic trying. (Or so I assume based on family lore. But also, let's be honest here: unless you were adopted, you can be assured that your parents and grandparents had a lot of sex, even when thinking about it makes you cringe.) I'm sure those twins were mourned, again, they were wanted. But they died--were miscarried--and everyone had to move on. I only know about this situation in context of my grandmother's general health issues, especially those that could be inherited. (Thanks, Grandma.) Death and having to move on from that was just a much starker reality, then. My understanding is that there were no antibiotics--no penicillin for sure--so you were relying on your own immune system, and as the world has learned over the last 3.5 years, that isn't a great strategy, especially if you can improve on it.
I think there's also room for comment on how patriarchal the society was then. So even if she hated Maria, how much room was there for her to comment on his new wife? But would she? I don't think so. She's a somewhat marginalized voice as a woman in early 1900s Europe, but how much can you despite a woman who just wants to love your grandchildren? Especially when she had nothing to do with your daughter's deaht.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 27, 2023 23:27:51 GMT
You are right. In previous generations, it was a harsh reality that people often died too young. Families had many many children, and often one or more was lost in infancy, or the mother was lost in childbirth. They didn't have the medical interventions to help save those lives. And they didn't have therapy or antidepressants to help the survivors cope with the unimaginable loss. Those poor people had to just suck it up and move forward, even if they would never be whole again. I would put the Whiteheads and the Von Trapps both in that category. I suppose from that angle, Maria would be seen as a godsend to anyone involved. She is helping Georg and the children not feel so broken every second of their lives. That has to be enough to be at least accepted by extended family, I would think.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 28, 2023 21:38:14 GMT
I think it wasn't uncommon for older women to become 'Grandes Dames', or matriarchs, especially (oddly enough) if they had been widowed...they took on the role of their dead husbands, and could become opinionated and overbearing. In this situation, they could exert a lot of influence on their daughter and husband.
It would have been interesting in this situation to see the fireworks between Georg and a domineering mother-in-law!
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Post by augiesannie on Aug 1, 2023 22:17:25 GMT
Inheriting money has a funny way of making the ones giving out the money feel that they are owed something, even if there were supposedly no strings attached with the money. If Agathe's parents bought Georg's house, it would make it much harder for him to cut them off, I would think. Think of the guilt trip they could put on him. My husband’s grandparents bought his childhood home for the family and it caused every possible harm you could imagine.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 2, 2023 14:42:37 GMT
Inheriting money has a funny way of making the ones giving out the money feel that they are owed something, even if there were supposedly no strings attached with the money. If Agathe's parents bought Georg's house, it would make it much harder for him to cut them off, I would think. Think of the guilt trip they could put on him. My husband’s grandparents bought his childhood home for the family and it caused every possible harm you could imagine. Money has an ugly way of turning normal people into lunatics. You see it all the time when someone passes away and then their (once close-knit) children end up not speaking to each other over inheritance debates. It's crazy!
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 11, 2023 22:50:53 GMT
So do we know anything about Georg's parents and background?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 15, 2023 20:30:33 GMT
So do we know anything about Georg's parents and background? Wikipedia doesn't tell us much. His dad was in the Navy, and was awarded the title "Ritter Von", which both of his sons then inherited. He died when Georg was four. There isn't much info on his mom. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_von_TrappI liked that the naval cadets all had to learn an instrument. I am also of the opinion that encouraging young people to learn an instrument helps them in the long run.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 19, 2023 19:50:19 GMT
Speaking of instruments, I was recently in a museum that had a fabulous exhibit of a turn of the century European village, though each house represented a different European nation. There were sight differences in styles, but all of them had basically the same simple necessities in them. The Austrian house stuck out to me because it was a house with a violin making shop in it. I didn't know Austrians made violins! I thought violins all came from Italy or Germany (and much more recently, China). If Georg's father was a nobleman, he probably lived more luxuriously than the people in this simple village, but seeing this made me think of him and his choice to learn violin.
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