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Post by Chris&Byng on Dec 2, 2023 1:20:08 GMT
I was looking for something else (isn't that always the way?) and came across this section of screen grab of our favourite uncle:
I honestly had to go back to the movie to see when it happened because I didn't really remember his expression during the song...it's pretty transient. However, in this grab, he looks so entirelyawesome and quintessentially Max! What do we think he is thinking here?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 2, 2023 1:42:54 GMT
This is right after the cuckoo birds pop out from behind their older siblings. I love this look. I think he’s thinking “oh, this is just too easy. I have an act with adorable talented children, with a built in choreographer that my host would do anything to please. I need to get her next to me at dinner to work out the details so she can be the one asking Georg if the children can enter. Then he can’t refuse.”
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 3, 2023 18:29:05 GMT
Yes, and this implies that he knows there is something up between G&M, and he is going to make use of it!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 6, 2023 22:12:34 GMT
Max is very self serving (until the festival). He doesn’t seem to worry too much about Elsa’s feelings when he was asking Maria to dinner. His “business” of getting the children into the festival was much more important to him than Elsa’s desire for the governess to be gone from the party.
Does Max just think that Maria has a pull on Georg because she helped him mend his relationship with his children? Or does he know there is a romantic undertone? I think he caught on during the Edelweiss scene that there’s more to G&M than meets the eye.
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 9, 2023 0:35:44 GMT
Yes, Max is pretty wily, and I suspect has a well-developed sixth sense about such things. But when Elsa came down from Maria's bedroom at the ball and drank champagne with him, he must have picked up that she had had words with Maria.
Do you think he told Georg that, after Maria left for the Abbey?
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 11, 2023 20:15:07 GMT
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 4, 2024 17:03:45 GMT
Yes, Max is pretty wily, and I suspect has a well-developed sixth sense about such things. But when Elsa came down from Maria's bedroom at the ball and drank champagne with him, he must have picked up that she had had words with Maria. Do you think he told Georg that, after Maria left for the Abbey? Interesting question. Maybe Max didn't need to voice his suspicions that Elsa scared off Maria because Georg had figured this out on his own? I keep waffling on why I think Georg thinks Maria left. He knows she was spooked by the intensity of the Laendler, but they seemed to make peace at the end of that. Then add on the smoldering gaze across the foyer later, and I don't think he thinks she left just because she was scared off by the dance. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I won't go down the "you can if you want to, Fraulein" road. I'm sure he knew this was callous, but it really wasn't enough to make her pack her bags and leave in the middle of a party she was supposed to be attending. Maybe Georg pieced it together on his own that Elsa was missing from the hall and the ballroom (we know he was in both during this time) while Maria was making her exit? Did Georg talk to Max about it the next day? What I would give to hear that conversation! I wonder how open either of them were about the love triangle. Regardless, even if Georg didn't suspect Elsa, I wouldn't think Max would need to do too much hinting to get Georg to that conclusion. |
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jan 31, 2024 0:45:00 GMT
Yes, Max is pretty wily, and I suspect has a well-developed sixth sense about such things. But when Elsa came down from Maria's bedroom at the ball and drank champagne with him, he must have picked up that she had had words with Maria. Do you think he told Georg that, after Maria left for the Abbey? Interesting question. Maybe Max didn't need to voice his suspicions that Elsa scared off Maria because Georg had figured this out on his own? I keep waffling on why I think Georg thinks Maria left. He knows she was spooked by the intensity of the Laendler, but they seemed to make peace at the end of that. Then add on the smoldering gaze across the foyer later, and I don't think he thinks she left just because she was scared off by the dance. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I won't go down the "you can if you want to, Fraulein" road. I'm sure he knew this was callous, but it really wasn't enough to make her pack her bags and leave in the middle of a party she was supposed to be attending. Maybe Georg pieced it together on his own that Elsa was missing from the hall and the ballroom (we know he was in both during this time) while Maria was making her exit? Did Georg talk to Max about it the next day? What I would give to hear that conversation! I wonder how open either of them were about the love triangle. Regardless, even if Georg didn't suspect Elsa, I wouldn't think Max would need to do too much hinting to get Georg to that conclusion. Well, reverendcaptain you got me thinking, and I have arrived at an unpopular opinion (in my version of head-canon, anyway; but these moments are good for creativity, even if you don't love them!) I like the story line you have woven above. Of course, Georg commanded submarines and was a decorated Captain; he's no slouch at strategy and reading the enemy. I think he figured it all out by considering what he knew to be true, what he observed around him (his skills in this department have to be top-notch), and conversations with Max. I think he is certainly concerned with Maria's well-being and probably a bit heart-broken...but did Maria's voluntary departure provide him with an opportunity: an easy out? Does he love Maria, of course.Is it a wise social move to love her openly (at least at this point of the movie)? of course not, not in the circles in which he moves. Not for a national hero and member of the upper class. Thus, was it an easy solution to a problem (like Maria!) that he otherwise didn't have a clue how to fix? I suppose there has been a lot of turmoil inside of Georg for a long time - a "she loves me, she loves me not; I love her, I love her not" kind of daisy moment (or two or three...)..but then she left, and he was handed a solution. He has been a coward before - avoiding the children, the memories, running to Vienna. Why not be a coward again in a moment when the poor man's heart has been broken again before he was able to act on it?
Maria left, now there's just Elsa - kind of like it's God's will that it worked out this way. It's all so much easier and safer. It doesn't challenge him or make him go outside of his boundaries. I also suspect that Elsa has used this moment of weakness to her advantage - to convince him this is how it is supposed to be. Obviously she knows how Georg feels about Maria, or she would not have chased her off. She's a smart lady, as well, and I trust she made the most of a time when Georg was not on his game.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 6, 2024 19:42:29 GMT
Interesting question. Maybe Max didn't need to voice his suspicions that Elsa scared off Maria because Georg had figured this out on his own? I keep waffling on why I think Georg thinks Maria left. He knows she was spooked by the intensity of the Laendler, but they seemed to make peace at the end of that. Then add on the smoldering gaze across the foyer later, and I don't think he thinks she left just because she was scared off by the dance. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I won't go down the "you can if you want to, Fraulein" road. I'm sure he knew this was callous, but it really wasn't enough to make her pack her bags and leave in the middle of a party she was supposed to be attending. Maybe Georg pieced it together on his own that Elsa was missing from the hall and the ballroom (we know he was in both during this time) while Maria was making her exit? Did Georg talk to Max about it the next day? What I would give to hear that conversation! I wonder how open either of them were about the love triangle. Regardless, even if Georg didn't suspect Elsa, I wouldn't think Max would need to do too much hinting to get Georg to that conclusion. Well, reverendcaptain you got me thinking, and I have arrived at an unpopular opinion (in my version of head-canon, anyway; but these moments are good for creativity, even if you don't love them!) I like the story line you have woven above. Of course, Georg commanded submarines and was a decorated Captain; he's no slouch at strategy and reading the enemy. I think he figured it all out by considering what he knew to be true, what he observed around him (his skills in this department have to be top-notch), and conversations with Max. I think he is certainly concerned with Maria's well-being and probably a bit heart-broken...but did Maria's voluntary departure provide him with an opportunity: an easy out? Does he love Maria, of course.Is it a wise social move to love her openly (at least at this point of the movie)? of course not, not in the circles in which he moves. Not for a national hero and member of the upper class. Thus, was it an easy solution to a problem (like Maria!) that he otherwise didn't have a clue how to fix? I suppose there has been a lot of turmoil inside of Georg for a long time - a "she loves me, she loves me not; I love her, I love her not" kind of daisy moment (or two or three...)..but then she left, and he was handed a solution. He has been a coward before - avoiding the children, the memories, running to Vienna. Why not be a coward again in a moment when the poor man's heart has been broken again before he was able to act on it?
Maria left, now there's just Elsa - kind of like it's God's will that it worked out this way. It's all so much easier and safer. It doesn't challenge him or make him go outside of his boundaries. I also suspect that Elsa has used this moment of weakness to her advantage - to convince him this is how it is supposed to be. Obviously she knows how Georg feels about Maria, or she would not have chased her off. She's a smart lady, as well, and I trust she made the most of a time when Georg was not on his game.
So...you're saying, Georg felt a sort of relief when Maria left? Wow. I've never thought about it like that before. Hmmm. Well, her sudden departure did instantly solve the problem. And I think I would agree with you...if it happened earlier. I'm tempted to say before the puppet show. I think there was a shift during Edelweiss. Though was that shift enough to be devastated over her leaving? No, I think he would have felt terrible with her leaving at that point, as he was falling for her, but he wouldn't be heartbroken. The Laendler is the shift (for me). After this, he knows he's in love with her (something he didn't know he could ever feel again), and her leaving his life was therefore unthinkable. Even if it conveniently solved the problem of marrying someone of lower class. I agree that Elsa took advantage of Georg's predicament to get what she wanted. He doesn't ever seem happy about it though. His pleasant demeanor during the pink lemonade scene seemed so forced. Which is why I think he was passed the point of being able to to see Maria's departure as a solution instead of a problem. |
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Post by Chris&Byng on Feb 7, 2024 1:13:15 GMT
reverendcaptain I am totally with you and I don't believe what I wrote (as I said, it is all contrary to my head canon), but I also thought playing Devil's Advocate can be fun! I just wonder if there is an element of Georg 'the coward' that comes along when he is heart broken, just as it did when his wife died.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 7, 2024 1:46:51 GMT
Ah, I get it now.
He did act like a coward when his wife died. One would think that a fine and brave naval captain would be able to steer the ship, even in rough waters, but he didn't, and those poor kids paid the price. The cowardice did return somewhat when Maria left, or he wouldn't have been pretending everything was great when his children were clearly suffering. He needed to at least acknowledge that Maria being gone was hard for (all of) them, but he didn't. I guess showing emotional vulnerability was not the strong suit of men in this era.
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 22, 2024 19:58:13 GMT
I have been away from this thread, but how Chris&Byng laid this out is really what I was thinking in my most recent story - that there is relief in a way from Maria running away (especially if this means she really is meant to be a nun) and then he does everything he can to avoid admitting to himself that he loves her. |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 24, 2024 0:24:14 GMT
It has crossed my mind in the past that Maria's prompt exit to the Abbey solved a problem for Georg, in that suddenly he didn't have to make any difficult decisions anymore. Because at that stage, he had little idea of what Maria's thoughts were - sure, she may have fancied him a little (who doesn't? - ahem!), but that would be very different to committing herself to him if her life plan is to be a nun!
So he was quickly relieved of the tricky situation of trying to find out quite HOW committed to him she was (see how convoluted their conversation was in the gazebo), and also the difficulty of letting the rest of the world know about it. And instead he has to do nothing...just slide into a marriage with Elsa.
Except...except...
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