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Post by augiesannie on Oct 22, 2013 10:47:43 GMT
I was going to make this a poll but I couldn't decide on the categories. This line of the Captain's has always intrigued me. It's plain meaning is that he doesn't think Rolf will ever really be an evil Nazi. But that would imply some degree of admiration or fondness for Rolf (although G does say, "come away with us," but I thought that was more of a generic grownup thing to say than about some feeling for Rolf). I don't see a point during the story where G would suddenly become fond of Rolf, softening Captain or not. The only other plausible reading is, "you'll never measure up to the Nazis," which of course makes no sense. Thoughts?
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Post by lemacd on Oct 22, 2013 11:55:44 GMT
hmmm... interesting question. never thought much about it, or at least not that he was being kind in any way. i guess i always took it as some kind of insult, like calling him a failure. i think after he says it, rolf starts to blow the whistle... almost to prove himself. probably why i never thought about the meaning of the captain's line... i always thought it was a stupid thing to say since it kind of provoked rolf to alert the rest of the men. maybe i have the sequence out of order. i need to rewatch.
"come away with us" always struck me more of a ploy to get him to stop pointing a gun at him and his family. i don't think he really wanted rolf to come with them.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 22, 2013 12:42:29 GMT
Here are my thoughts----"Come away with us" is certainly a way to keep Rolf from alerting the other Nazis; but I also saw it as bringing Georg full circle as a character. In the beginning he is treating his own children like little sailors, then in the end saying that to a Nazi soldier in a way shows the full restoration of his paternal nature. A general, grownup thing to say, certainly. "You're just a boy" would seem to affirm that.
I'm still torn on the "you'll never be one of them". Rolf certainly took it as a dare, and possibly an insult (though he is likely too dimwitted for that). Still not sure how Georg intended it, however. Maybe he thought it would break him, since he sees Rolf as weak?
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Post by tranquillity on Oct 22, 2013 16:52:11 GMT
I have always interpreted this sentence as a kind of diversion tactics of the always sober captain. Now, when I think of it, Georg can also think that Rolf is just an immature young boy, easily seduced by psychotic ideas like Nazism.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 23, 2013 23:03:26 GMT
My feeling is that Georg is engaging in some persuasive psychology from the moment he starts proceeding towards Rolf; first of all advancing to show him he has the upper hand (and that R should capitulate to him), then trying some verbal stuff to suggest that R is not a part of the Nazi group, and so should leave while he has a chance. I imagine all stuff he would have learnt in the Navy, and isn't he just so delicious when he does it?!
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 23, 2013 23:16:57 GMT
i don't think he really wanted rolf to come with them. understatement award of the evening. Tranquility and indigo make sense to me; although I'm all for Reformed Georg, it's a little harder to believe he would ever unbend toward Rolf, and that he'd be stupid enough to make the mistake of insulting him (although perhaps G could get carried away out of love for country). Or maybe he meant, "you're not even bright enough to be one of them, that's what a loser you are." Anyway, thank you, you guys have all made more sense of this than I ever could. G is very dashing in this scene the way he waves Maria and the children to safety, and calmly takes that gun from Rolf. Like taking candy from a baby. |
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 27, 2013 21:41:42 GMT
Uh,huh. He can try it on me anyday. No problem about capitulating here!
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 28, 2013 1:42:13 GMT
I think he would have taken Rolf if Rolf had relented. Georg hated the Nazis more than he hated Rolf.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 12:49:16 GMT
Ok I know there are a lot of people who are members of the I hate Rolf fan club (if there is such a thing). I was interested to read this thread as I'm going to deal with the Rolf/Georg encounter in (maybe) chapter 5 of As Long As We're Together (yeah I know I've only posted chapter 1 so this is a bit ahead of time, although I did write about half of chapter 2 this afternoon so it's progressing along...)
Anyway, I think my take on it was that obviously Georg hated the Nazis etc but thinks that Rolf is just a stupid young boy who has just been brainwashed but if only he could have gotten through to him, he might have had a chance to change him back (from the dark side... I sound like I'm quoting Star Wars) and so afterwards Georg feels obviously pleased that they got away but frustrated and disappointed that he was not able to 'get through' to Rolf (as he almost did since he was able to make him hesitate long enough for Georg to get the gun away from him).
Does this sound reasonable?
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 13:08:09 GMT
I do think that's reasonable.
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Post by lemacd on Jan 29, 2014 13:19:11 GMT
our official name is the 'Rolfe is a Tool' Club. Membership is free and it's BYOB.
hmmm... i doubt that G gave rolfe an afterthought, to be honest. at the moment that he says, "come with us" and "you'll never be one of them." i am sure the only thing G is thinking about is the gun R is pointing at him and making it out of the abbey w/ this family. maybe once he reaches safety, he might think about it and wish things went differently, but honestly i doubt it.
but if it works for your story for G to have a changed heart toward the massive tool that threw rocks at his daughter's window in broad daylight and thought a nazi salute was the most appropriate response to "what do you think you're doing?", go for it.
ok, sorry, that wasn't very sincere. my snark tends to take over until the first cup of coffee has been consumed. anything can happen in fiction and i'm sure you can make it work for your story.
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 13:25:40 GMT
our official name is the 'Rolfe is a Tool' Club. Membership is free and it's BYOB. hmmm... i doubt that G gave rolfe an afterthought, to be honest. at the moment that he says, "come with us" and "you'll never be one of them." i am sure the only thing G is thinking about is the gun R is pointing at him and making it out of the abbey w/ this family. maybe once he reaches safety, he might think about it and wish things went differently, but honestly i doubt it. but if it works for your story for G to have a changed heart toward the massive tool that threw rocks at his daughter's window in broad daylight and thought a nazi salute was the most appropriate response to "what do you think you're doing?", go for it. ok, sorry, that wasn't very sincere. my snark tends to take over until the first cup of coffee has been consumed. anything can happen in fiction and i'm sure you can make it work for your story. ROFL. er, I mean ROLF. Wait, now I'm confused. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 29, 2014 13:34:27 GMT
they were pebbles, lemacd, not rocks. Not sure that if someone was pointing a gun at my midsection, I'd say, "you'll never be one of them." Or "come with us" for that matter. I"m sure @charleybec will make sense of it all for us, right? |
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Post by lemacd on Jan 29, 2014 13:59:54 GMT
they were pebbles, lemacd, not rocks. Not sure that if someone was pointing a gun at my midsection, I'd say, "you'll never be one of them." Or "come with us" for that matter. I"m sure @charleybec will make sense of it all for us, right? you're right. rolfe has pebbles, not rocks. that is a euphemism that keeps on giving right there... |
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 15:25:29 GMT
More snorting, here.
Oh, it's too easy. I just can't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 17:19:48 GMT
they were pebbles, lemacd, not rocks. Not sure that if someone was pointing a gun at my midsection, I'd say, "you'll never be one of them." Or "come with us" for that matter. I"m sure @charleybec will make sense of it all for us, right? Yeah, maybe? I might be confused too (but it is 4am so maybe when I'm more awake and with lots of coffee. Really, how can the world survive without coffee, and good coffee too? None of that instant, plunger or drip filter rubbish - espresso all the way!) thanks for for all the ideas! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 21:26:30 GMT
Ok coffee no.1 done for the day (I feel like celebrating!)
Yes, I have no doubt that Georg is a member of the Rolf is a Tool club (he may the president along with lemacd), but I also think he has a heart (of course he does, the sexy man). So he may be thinking "even though this boy is a tool, I don't want him being a Nazi tool". On the other hand, he was probably glad the Rolf didn't go with them as I don't think there would have been any more room in that car (really, how did they fit 9 people in a car - I own a 7 seat SUV so I could do it theoretically, but 9 people in that car....)
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 29, 2014 21:56:26 GMT
they were pebbles, lemacd, not rocks. Not sure that if someone was pointing a gun at my midsection, I'd say, "you'll never be one of them." Or "come with us" for that matter. I"m sure @charleybec will make sense of it all for us, right? you're right. rolfe has pebbles, not rocks. that is a euphemism that keeps on giving right there... another. best. comeback. ever. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 0:58:59 GMT
I guess it wouldn't be appropriate for a family friendly movie if after Georg gets the gun away from Rolf, he knees him in his... um... pebbles to escape right?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 0:04:34 GMT
I just found a huge range of BTS pics and photos that I had never seen before. I'll get around to posting them all over the next few days but this one was too good to resist putting up straight away It's TOOL time!!!  |
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 30, 2014 1:13:27 GMT
OMG. Toolishness personified.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 30, 2014 1:25:23 GMT
Or personhood toolified.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 1:35:35 GMT
It is soooo cringe-worthy, it is good!!!
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Post by mireille on Apr 30, 2014 7:28:35 GMT
He can't even look in the camera. Ugh I want to slap that smirk of his face.
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 30, 2014 11:33:29 GMT
One sort of understands why he never got included in the whole SOM7/reunion vibe. Poor Daniel - a victim of his character.
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Post by lemacd on Apr 30, 2014 13:42:28 GMT
Wows there are some pretty strong anti Rolf feelings here. I'm starting to almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 30, 2014 17:15:49 GMT
Wows there are some pretty strong anti Rolf feelings here. I'm starting to almost feel sorry for the guy. Almost. I thought you'd be first in line to smack that smirk off his face. |
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Post by lemacd on Apr 30, 2014 18:18:32 GMT
Yeah, normally I would. And I still would. But I'm starting to be afraid for him.
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Post by lemacd on Apr 30, 2014 20:03:00 GMT
maybe what i should say is, "he's just a boy..."
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Post by thoughts-of-joy-dreams-of-love on Apr 30, 2014 21:12:32 GMT
lemacd? Afraid for Rolf? I never thought I'd see the day...
But good God, that is an awful picture. What were you trying to do, Dan?
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