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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 3, 2023 19:47:17 GMT
I suppose I am wrong in my statement above that Georg has not let music back in his life, as he did sing TSOM with the children. Still, this is different because he is the solo performer, and gets to pick whatever he wants to sing. His singing with the children was certainly vulnerable, but this is revealing in a different way. Plus, this had the added complexity of Maria being the one asking him to sing.
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 20, 2023 10:16:01 GMT
I love that second little smile, I never really noticed it before! I think it has a lot to do with her having been the one to ask, reverendcaptain. She has given him so much, can't he do this in return? I also like the little handwavy gesture Maria makes to get the children to sit down, like, "don't spoil it now, we've got him where we want him!" (I can't get a screencap right now).
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 22, 2023 21:04:26 GMT
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 28, 2023 11:10:01 GMT
thanks reverendcaptain, that's it exactly. I like her smile there. She has this enthusiastic, innocent girlish smile that displays he pre-Georg side of Maria, as opposed to the gauzy besotted look she's given us earlier when he's singing.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 15, 2023 0:09:40 GMT
So, how much of him agreeing to this song is for the children versus for Maria? He is so involved with his children at this point, and maybe Liesl mentioning that she remembers him singing brings him back to happy memories from before his life changed, and he wants his other children to have those memories too. But at least some of it is Maria too. I just can't decide on a percentage. They are clearly friends and basically co-parents at this point. I don't think he would have given in if it weren't her pushing him. sorry, reverendcaptain I am quoting you a lot today! What do you think about the 'looks' between Georg and Elsa at this point - like, when Maria asks. Maria approaches and hands out the guitar and Elsa has this look like "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree", and then Georg looks at Elsa out of the corner of his eye (they don't make eye contact). Does Georg see this as Elsa 'scolding him' for unruly behaviour (hence, the no-no-no-no-no-no-no!), or does he see her looking horrified and he wants to emphasize he makes his own decisions, but the no-no-no sequence then becomes a bit of a game between him, Maria, and the children? Or is it something else completely?
On a related/unrelated note, one of my FAVOURITE moments in the whole movie is the moment when Georg agrees and he and Maria lock eyes and they both share two of the most beautiful smiles in the whole movie. I have it bookmarked because it just makes me smile
i0.wp.com/img.screencaps.us/196/5-sound-music/full/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-9643.jpg?ssl=1
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 15, 2023 0:26:22 GMT
So, do you think that Maria's response to the Captain singing in Edelweiss is the point at which he fell for her? If we consider reverendcaptain 's idea above to be the case up to when he sang Edelweiss, then when he saw her clearly adoring his singing, was this the point at which they 'clicked'? I've always felt that he started off with the song in quite a bluff way, but each time he looked at her, he seemed to be more bewitched. Maybe if he already had had ideas about her, but had denied them to himself because he thought they were improper, or wouldn't be reciprocated, then seeing her relishing his attention might have suddenly opened the floodgates for him. Well, it depends on what "fell for her" means exactly. I think they were both thinking that the other is absolutely amazing starting at this point. Maria had him enchanted with the puppet show, but that could easily be explained away in his mind as him enjoying the children enjoying themselves. Edelweiss was a connection just between the two of them (even though everyone else is in the room watching on). He was singing to her, and she was smiling back at him. There is no way to explain this away. I think they are falling for each other, yes, but would deny it if it were suggested to them. They can both easily brush off their daydreams as harmless because the other is not available, while secretly they find each other attractive on many levels. The deleted scene would then be Maria gazing out thinking - wow, he is so wonderful (no hint of guilt here, as she is not admitting that she is falling in love with him, just that he is amazing). Where as, he is much more experienced and would be walking by the lake thinking - omg, what am I doing? Why do I keep finding myself flirting with this person who is so off limits? And why does it feel so right when I'm doing it? I agree that this is too deep for this point in the movie, and that it was smart to delete it. The Laendler is the "fall in love" moment for me, and it would have been muddled if too much was revealed before that point. Let's just say I know the "falling in love with the unattainable" a little too well There truly is a naive sense of safety when someone you care about is a so-called "unattainable" person. You know that you can't have them 'in that way' and accept that, but this doesn't STOP you from giving all the love you have to that person, just you do it in a platonic way. You are just giving without the hope of having it returned or having any intentions, so to speak, because you care for that person. This is especially true when you're young (would not fall for it now hahaha). As you selflessly give, the other person (who you know you can't have) is affected, but you really don't clue into that because it's never your intention to fall in love that way (again, because you're naive and stupid LOL). However, you do reach a point where you're like "OMG I think..." so I can feel the parallels with S&M. The Laendler is that point where Maria realizes that despite her intentions, it's becoming clearer that her love/affections are shared by Georg, even though he's courting the Baroness (as was already mentioned, she adds to the 'naive sense of safety'...
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 15, 2023 10:30:18 GMT
So, how much of him agreeing to this song is for the children versus for Maria? He is so involved with his children at this point, and maybe Liesl mentioning that she remembers him singing brings him back to happy memories from before his life changed, and he wants his other children to have those memories too. But at least some of it is Maria too. I just can't decide on a percentage. They are clearly friends and basically co-parents at this point. I don't think he would have given in if it weren't her pushing him. sorry, reverendcaptain I am quoting you a lot today! What do you think about the 'looks' between Georg and Elsa at this point - like, when Maria asks. Maria approaches and hands out the guitar and Elsa has this look like "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree", and then Georg looks at Elsa out of the corner of his eye (they don't make eye contact). Does Georg see this as Elsa 'scolding him' for unruly behaviour (hence, the no-no-no-no-no-no-no!), or does he see her looking horrified and he wants to emphasize he makes his own decisions, but the no-no-no sequence then becomes a bit of a game between him, Maria, and the children? Or is it something else completely? On a related/unrelated note, one of my FAVOURITE moments in the whole movie is the moment when Georg agrees and he and Maria lock eyes and they both share two of the most beautiful smiles in the whole movie. I have it bookmarked because it just makes me smile i0.wp.com/img.screencaps.us/196/5-sound-music/full/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-9643.jpg?ssl=1 love love love this image. It may be as big a turning point as any other!
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 15, 2023 10:34:24 GMT
Well, it depends on what "fell for her" means exactly. I think they were both thinking that the other is absolutely amazing starting at this point. Maria had him enchanted with the puppet show, but that could easily be explained away in his mind as him enjoying the children enjoying themselves. Edelweiss was a connection just between the two of them (even though everyone else is in the room watching on). He was singing to her, and she was smiling back at him. There is no way to explain this away. I think they are falling for each other, yes, but would deny it if it were suggested to them. They can both easily brush off their daydreams as harmless because the other is not available, while secretly they find each other attractive on many levels. The deleted scene would then be Maria gazing out thinking - wow, he is so wonderful (no hint of guilt here, as she is not admitting that she is falling in love with him, just that he is amazing). Where as, he is much more experienced and would be walking by the lake thinking - omg, what am I doing? Why do I keep finding myself flirting with this person who is so off limits? And why does it feel so right when I'm doing it? I agree that this is too deep for this point in the movie, and that it was smart to delete it. The Laendler is the "fall in love" moment for me, and it would have been muddled if too much was revealed before that point. Let's just say I know the "falling in love with the unattainable" a little too well There truly is a naive sense of safety when someone you care about is a so-called "unattainable" person. You know that you can't have them 'in that way' and accept that, but this doesn't STOP you from giving all the love you have to that person, just you do it in a platonic way. You are just giving without the hope of having it returned or having any intentions, so to speak, because you care for that person. This is especially true when you're young (would not fall for it now hahaha). As you selflessly give, the other person (who you know you can't have) is affected, but you really don't clue into that because it's never your intention to fall in love that way (again, because you're naive and stupid LOL). However, you do reach a point where you're like "OMG I think..." so I can feel the parallels with S&M. The Laendler is that point where Maria realizes that despite her intentions, it's becoming clearer that her love/affections are shared by Georg, even though he's courting the Baroness (as was already mentioned, she adds to the 'naive sense of safety'... I love this perspective on loving an unattainable person. It would really explain the dismay Maria exhibits when confronted by Elsa in the bedroom, and with Reverend Mother thereafter. she never expected her feelings to be "outed." If G had gone onto marry E, would M's heart have been broken if she always considered him unattainable? Also trying to puzzle out who is "S&M" :-) reverendcaptain
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 19, 2023 0:32:10 GMT
Let's just say I know the "falling in love with the unattainable" a little too well There truly is a naive sense of safety when someone you care about is a so-called "unattainable" person. You know that you can't have them 'in that way' and accept that, but this doesn't STOP you from giving all the love you have to that person, just you do it in a platonic way. You are just giving without the hope of having it returned or having any intentions, so to speak, because you care for that person. This is especially true when you're young (would not fall for it now hahaha). As you selflessly give, the other person (who you know you can't have) is affected, but you really don't clue into that because it's never your intention to fall in love that way (again, because you're naive and stupid LOL). However, you do reach a point where you're like "OMG I think..." so I can feel the parallels with S&M. The Laendler is that point where Maria realizes that despite her intentions, it's becoming clearer that her love/affections are shared by Georg, even though he's courting the Baroness (as was already mentioned, she adds to the 'naive sense of safety'... I love this perspective on loving an unattainable person. It would really explain the dismay Maria exhibits when confronted by Elsa in the bedroom, and with Reverend Mother thereafter. she never expected her feelings to be "outed." If G had gone onto marry E, would M's heart have been broken if she always considered him unattainable? Also trying to puzzle out who is "S&M" :-) reverendcaptain
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 19, 2023 23:12:54 GMT
Let's just say I know the "falling in love with the unattainable" a little too well There truly is a naive sense of safety when someone you care about is a so-called "unattainable" person. You know that you can't have them 'in that way' and accept that, but this doesn't STOP you from giving all the love you have to that person, just you do it in a platonic way. You are just giving without the hope of having it returned or having any intentions, so to speak, because you care for that person. This is especially true when you're young (would not fall for it now hahaha). As you selflessly give, the other person (who you know you can't have) is affected, but you really don't clue into that because it's never your intention to fall in love that way (again, because you're naive and stupid LOL). However, you do reach a point where you're like "OMG I think..." so I can feel the parallels with S&M. The Laendler is that point where Maria realizes that despite her intentions, it's becoming clearer that her love/affections are shared by Georg, even though he's courting the Baroness (as was already mentioned, she adds to the 'naive sense of safety'... I love this perspective on loving an unattainable person. It would really explain the dismay Maria exhibits when confronted by Elsa in the bedroom, and with Reverend Mother thereafter. she never expected her feelings to be "outed." If G had gone onto marry E, would M's heart have been broken if she always considered him unattainable? Also trying to puzzle out who is "S&M" :-) reverendcaptain I suspect it was a Freudian slip, though it wasn't mine (this time) augiesannie . We'll have to ask Chris&Byng .
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 20, 2023 0:44:49 GMT
I love this perspective on loving an unattainable person. It would really explain the dismay Maria exhibits when confronted by Elsa in the bedroom, and with Reverend Mother thereafter. she never expected her feelings to be "outed." If G had gone onto marry E, would M's heart have been broken if she always considered him unattainable? Also trying to puzzle out who is "S&M" :-) reverendcaptain I suspect it was a Freudian slip, though it wasn't mine (this time) augiesannie . We'll have to ask Chris&Byng . Oh it's totally me letting the abnormal be normal LOL. Chris Plummer repeatedly refers to SOM as S&M in his book (In Spite of Myself) . I am afraid as a fellow Canadian, I must have picked up his mannerisms and it has kind of stuck with me to the point that it's normal LOL until someone shows me it's not normal. Anytime I write Sound of Music down, the short hand is S&M bahahaa
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 20, 2023 19:49:09 GMT
So, how much of him agreeing to this song is for the children versus for Maria? He is so involved with his children at this point, and maybe Liesl mentioning that she remembers him singing brings him back to happy memories from before his life changed, and he wants his other children to have those memories too. But at least some of it is Maria too. I just can't decide on a percentage. They are clearly friends and basically co-parents at this point. I don't think he would have given in if it weren't her pushing him. sorry, reverendcaptain I am quoting you a lot today! What do you think about the 'looks' between Georg and Elsa at this point - like, when Maria asks. Maria approaches and hands out the guitar and Elsa has this look like "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree", and then Georg looks at Elsa out of the corner of his eye (they don't make eye contact). Does Georg see this as Elsa 'scolding him' for unruly behaviour (hence, the no-no-no-no-no-no-no!), or does he see her looking horrified and he wants to emphasize he makes his own decisions, but the no-no-no sequence then becomes a bit of a game between him, Maria, and the children? Or is it something else completely?
On a related/unrelated note, one of my FAVOURITE moments in the whole movie is the moment when Georg agrees and he and Maria lock eyes and they both share two of the most beautiful smiles in the whole movie. I have it bookmarked because it just makes me smile
i0.wp.com/img.screencaps.us/196/5-sound-music/full/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-9643.jpg?ssl=1
Never apologize! I can't talk about this stuff enough! The looks here are delicious aren't they? It starts with Georg looking at the children whispering together Maria and getting busted by Max. Then the vote is unanimous, and Elsa goes from looking at Georg in surprise, to looking at Maria with..I'm not sure if it's pity or chastisement, to looking back at Georg waiting for him to set this situation straight, to looking between G&M with, as you so eloquently put it, an "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree" look. What does Georg think about Elsa's disapproval is an interesting topic. He is never shy about making it clear that he makes his own decisions, so I'm not sure he feels compelled to do that. I think, being the good host that he is, her disapproval shocks him out of his staring contest with the governess. His expression hardly changes the whole time these Elsa looks are going on. He is just...lost in Maria's eyes, I think. He does turn to look at Max in response to his laughter, and he does glance at Elsa (though you are right, they do not make eye contact). I think her disapproval motivates him to say no, but he does so playfully because that is the kind of father he is now. Then he walks away and doesn't check in with Elsa again. He just trades dazzling smiles with Maria (as shown in your screencap) because she has already changed his mind. Actually he doesn't look at Elsa again until the middle of the song..
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 24, 2023 23:20:26 GMT
sorry, reverendcaptain I am quoting you a lot today! What do you think about the 'looks' between Georg and Elsa at this point - like, when Maria asks. Maria approaches and hands out the guitar and Elsa has this look like "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree", and then Georg looks at Elsa out of the corner of his eye (they don't make eye contact). Does Georg see this as Elsa 'scolding him' for unruly behaviour (hence, the no-no-no-no-no-no-no!), or does he see her looking horrified and he wants to emphasize he makes his own decisions, but the no-no-no sequence then becomes a bit of a game between him, Maria, and the children? Or is it something else completely?
On a related/unrelated note, one of my FAVOURITE moments in the whole movie is the moment when Georg agrees and he and Maria lock eyes and they both share two of the most beautiful smiles in the whole movie. I have it bookmarked because it just makes me smile
i0.wp.com/img.screencaps.us/196/5-sound-music/full/sound-music-movie-screencaps.com-9643.jpg?ssl=1
Never apologize! I can't talk about this stuff enough! The looks here are delicious aren't they? It starts with Georg looking at the children whispering together Maria and getting busted by Max. Then the vote is unanimous, and Elsa goes from looking at Georg in surprise, to looking at Maria with..I'm not sure if it's pity or chastisement, to looking back at Georg waiting for him to set this situation straight, to looking between G&M with, as you so eloquently put it, an "OMFG, you can't be serious, he isn't going to agree" look. What does Georg think about Elsa's disapproval is an interesting topic. He is never shy about making it clear that he makes his own decisions, so I'm not sure he feels compelled to do that. I think, being the good host that he is, her disapproval shocks him out of his staring contest with the governess. His expression hardly changes the whole time these Elsa looks are going on. He is just...lost in Maria's eyes, I think. He does turn to look at Max in response to his laughter, and he does glance at Elsa (though you are right, they do not make eye contact). I think her disapproval motivates him to say no, but he does so playfully because that is the kind of father he is now. Then he walks away and doesn't check in with Elsa again. He just trades dazzling smiles with Maria (as shown in your screencap) because she has already changed his mind. Actually he doesn't look at Elsa again until the middle of the song.. reverendcaptain I always love your insights! As I was reading, I was struck by your comment about Georg walking away and not checking in with Elsa again. This is very prophetic on so many levels. To this point, Georg has been caught catching glimpses of Maria in a way that the Captain should not look at the governess, but the walking away from Elsa says so much about what will happen next/later. The fact that Elsa even disappears from the scene is an interesting cinematic choice - until she makes her quip about the harmonica.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 27, 2023 1:22:32 GMT
I think Max is thinking "Oh Georg, tread carefully. She's cute and she's a firecracker, but she's a nun! And the woman you intend to marry is looking on. You're playing with fire, man!"
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 27, 2023 23:01:11 GMT
Yes, and thinking of Max's expressions during Edelweiss, he's right in on the situation all the way along.
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 30, 2023 19:26:33 GMT
Chris&Byng that is one of my favorite moments too! I like to think that it is the first time since his wife died that he has taken a guitar in his arms. And I feel like. He says it in response to her “please,” not anything else…
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 30, 2023 22:59:59 GMT
I do love the warmth that seems to exist between the characters in this moment, such a contrast to their relationship in their first four scenes together.
So much of it is due to the depth of feeling that is conveyed between Chris and Julie, although I would say that Chris has spanned the range the greatest, from his coldness and sarcasm in the beginning to the heartfelt humility in his smile here. Fabulous acting and chemistry from this fabulous duo!
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