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Post by thebeestings on Jul 22, 2015 0:55:46 GMT
augiesannie said: I absolutely see a case for her not realizing what's happening. It almost seems to me like she's mesmerized by the transformation she's seen in him. Not ten minutes before he was clapping and cheering for his children and now he's sitting there singing to them (and her) and further opening his heart and being adorably vulnerable and so...she's enchanted by him. Or she has us all fooled with her innocent look and she's really thinking... I have to get me some of that!
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Post by lemacd on Jul 22, 2015 3:35:38 GMT
I lean toward she knows something is happening, might even suspect. And she's indulging a little bit, letting herself dream. The thing is, she thinks no one can tell, thinks she's keeping her heart secret. I think that is why Elsa's words in the bedroom stun her so much. It was supposed to a harmless little fantasy but she was playing with fire.
The deleted scene that follows could support this theory, that she knew. Probably why it was deleted. I think we're not supposed to be entirely sure she knows what's happening.
I have no idea if I'm even on topic anymore.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jul 22, 2015 4:54:46 GMT
I'm trying to think back to when I first discovered that I liked boys. I wasn't sure what it all meant, but I found myself very mesmerized by them and liking what I was seeing. Yes she's been living in a convent, but she also knows that men and women fall in love and get married. It may be, and it's what I like to believe, that she has never experienced those kind of feelings before, but I still think that she could be possibly captivated by him and definitely know enough to recognize that in the very least she is attracted to him. I don't think she would necessarily know that it's love she is feeling, but she could think he's handsome and kind and have those moments of giddiness when she knows she's going to be seeing him. I'm not sure any of that makes sense or that I'm even getting across what I'm trying to convey. The feelings could be there without her knowing that it's called love or crushing, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
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Post by lemacd on Jul 22, 2015 10:07:56 GMT
I don't like to think if her as that naive. She recognizes the symptoms in herself I think. (RM asks and she says she doesn't know but there were times he looked at her and she couldn't breathe). She might not call it love but I think that's because she's convinced it's all one sided. So yeah, it's attraction and infatuation and maybe a crush... but I don't think she's flailing and thinking "what's going on?!" I think her inexperience comes in how she doesn't think it matters because she can't tell that he's feeling something too.
It's 6am. If this makes sense, we're all lucky.
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 22, 2015 15:59:16 GMT
I don't like to think if her as that naive. She recognizes the symptoms in herself I think. (RM asks and she says she doesn't know but there were times he looked at her and she couldn't breathe). She might not call it love but I think that's because she's convinced it's all one sided. So yeah, it's attraction and infatuation and maybe a crush... but I don't think she's flailing and thinking "what's going on?!" I think her inexperience comes in how she doesn't think it matters because she can't tell that he's feeling something too. It's 6am. If this makes sense, we're all lucky. Makes sense to me. Going back to this: I think it is both. She is clearly crushing on him here, already adores his children, and is probably like "wow, this would just be a dream come true if they were mine and we were married and all singing together all the time..." Certainly not in a calculating, 'I'm going to steal him from the baroness way', but in a 'a girl can dream even if she's planning on being a nun' sort of way. Kinda like the way I think about running away and offering myself to Chris as trophy wife. Never mind that he's got one he adores, and I am certainly no trophy. ;-) |
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jul 22, 2015 16:52:04 GMT
I don't like to think if her as that naive. She recognizes the symptoms in herself I think. (RM asks and she says she doesn't know but there were times he looked at her and she couldn't breathe). She might not call it love but I think that's because she's convinced it's all one sided. So yeah, it's attraction and infatuation and maybe a crush... but I don't think she's flailing and thinking "what's going on?!" I think her inexperience comes in how she doesn't think it matters because she can't tell that he's feeling something too. It's 6am. If this makes sense, we're all lucky. Yes, I think this is what I was trying to get at it. It might be the first time she has experienced such things, but she would know and recognize them as her being attracted to him. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 22, 2015 18:48:53 GMT
this all works for me. Part of my thinking is that she is still probably intending to go back to Nonnberg, so it might seem like a safe, private , temporary fancy, rather than something she'd ever act on. Again, sort of like a 5th grade crush. and utility_singer, you are so a trophy. |
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 22, 2015 19:11:42 GMT
this all works for me. Part of my thinking is that she is still probably intending to go back to Nonnberg, so it might seem like a safe, private , temporary fancy, rather than something she'd ever act on. Again, sort of like a 5th grade crush. and utility_singer, you are so a trophy. Yes, but she clearly had doubts as to her suitability for the vocation, as just minutes earlier she'd told Elsa she didn't think she would make a very good nun. But acting on her crush? Not on a dare, at that point. And you are sweet to say that. :-) |
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Flick
Jul 22, 2015 19:28:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by augiesannie on Jul 22, 2015 19:28:01 GMT
this all works for me. Part of my thinking is that she is still probably intending to go back to Nonnberg, so it might seem like a safe, private , temporary fancy, rather than something she'd ever act on. Again, sort of like a 5th grade crush. and utility_singer, you are so a trophy. Yes, but she clearly had doubts as to her suitability for the vocation, as just minutes earlier she'd told Elsa she didn't think she would make a very good nun. But acting on her crush? Not on a dare, at that point. And you are sweet to say that. :-) True. I forgot about the sequence of events. I think...wait. Time for a new thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 20:37:41 GMT
You took the words right out of my mouth augiesannie!! The way utility_singer thinks about sex, well ANY man would appreciate that. Mr utility_singer is a lucky guy! Wait, I've gone off topic. Where were we? |
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 23, 2015 22:53:12 GMT
What? Are we having a new thread on what UtilitySinger thinks about sex?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 0:51:06 GMT
What? Are we having a new thread on what UtilitySinger thinks about sex? needs an entire board. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 24, 2015 0:59:52 GMT
I started a new thread about the timing of Maria's vocation. That's all I got.
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 24, 2015 11:18:46 GMT
What? Are we having a new thread on what UtilitySinger thinks about sex? needs an entire board.  |
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Feb 7, 2022 16:17:07 GMT
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Post by missisa on Feb 7, 2022 16:17:07 GMT
I lean toward she knows something is happening, might even suspect. And she's indulging a little bit, letting herself dream. The thing is, she thinks no one can tell, thinks she's keeping her heart secret. I think that is why Elsa's words in the bedroom stun her so much. It was supposed to a harmless little fantasy but she was playing with fire. The deleted scene that follows could support this theory, that she knew. Probably why it was deleted. I think we're not supposed to be entirely sure she knows what's happening. I have no idea if I'm even on topic anymore. Omg. What deleted scene is that one "that follows"? 😳 lemacd now i am on tenterhooks |
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Post by lemacd on Feb 7, 2022 19:31:37 GMT
I lean toward she knows something is happening, might even suspect. And she's indulging a little bit, letting herself dream. The thing is, she thinks no one can tell, thinks she's keeping her heart secret. I think that is why Elsa's words in the bedroom stun her so much. It was supposed to a harmless little fantasy but she was playing with fire. The deleted scene that follows could support this theory, that she knew. Probably why it was deleted. I think we're not supposed to be entirely sure she knows what's happening. I have no idea if I'm even on topic anymore. Omg. What deleted scene is that one "that follows"? 😳 lemacd now i am on tenterhooks It's been forever since I even thought about it and I'm hopeful someone might be able to fill in what I get wrong or am missing... and by deleted scene, we only had photos to go by, not a bit of film. In the deleted scene, IIRC, there is a scene of Maria looking out a window and (again, I tend to get things very wrong-- serious memory issues) watching the Captain down below (a kind of reversal of the scene before he and Elsa break it off). It happens after the edelweiss scene, presumably Maria has put the children to bed and is still processing what happened while he was singing. It might have been deleted in order to make the Laendler a much more poignant moment of discovery. Or for time. We'll never know, I'm sure. Incidentally this thread is gold. I enjoyed reading it after so long. |
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 7, 2022 23:40:23 GMT
Here it is, just as Lemacd describes:  |
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Post by missisa on Feb 8, 2022 9:06:24 GMT
oh thank you both so much lemacd @indigoblue Yes, I knew that scene but for a moment I had fantasized about the existence of a deleted scene "after" the discussion with Elsa, sorry, I think I've totally messed up. And yes, I agree that showing it would have taken away some of the Laender's strength. Oscar for Best editing after all! |
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 18, 2022 20:12:21 GMT
I love the way missisa brings these threads back to life and - poof! - seven years vanish in an instant. I also agree that such a scene would have weakened the Laendler. I think Wise believed, similarly, that it was a little too soon to dwell on Maria's crush any more. But looking at that image does make one ponder, yet again, how she was making sense of being a postulant, crushing on him, etc. |
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Oct 8, 2022 23:27:49 GMT
Post by indigoblue on Oct 8, 2022 23:27:49 GMT
Do you think she was dreaming or looking directly at him here? I have an idea he was on the terrace, wandering around - but did she know he was there?
By the way, this thread had me in stitches - a golden oldie!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 13, 2022 19:07:41 GMT
I think she was already staring out the window daydreaming (It was quite a night with both the puppet show and Edelweiss!), and then who should show up but the very person she was daydreaming about. So, she gets to watch him unchecked while she thinks about how lovely he sings/ how wonderful his attention is / what a great father he is turning out to be / how handsome he is...
What music do you think they would have picked to be in the background of this scene had it made the movie? Edelweiss?
I agree, this thread is hysterical.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 13, 2022 19:28:16 GMT
So this is the first time he claps eyes on her in a dress that is not dowdy, but which delicately draws his eye to the slenderness of her waist and from there to the rest of her appealing anatomy (as demonstrated by his gaze when he stops to allow her through the door before him). This move, I think we have discussed before, is unusual because I think normally a Governess would be expected to walk behind the Master of the House, so the fact that he makes a point of letting her through first, shows her he respects her (and also allows him the chance to Peruse The Goods at leisure, without Elsa seeing him do it). Elsa (from memory) pulls a face when she sees him letting Maria through. If you look carefully, you can see him eyeing Maria until he closes the door behind him - undoubtably with the Captain's natural resources expressing their approval all the way... I know this quote is from forever ago, but I wanted to talk about Georg showing Maria respect by allowing her to walk through the door first. I've never thought about it like that. Where else do we see him showing her respect in a different way that he would any other governess? The Apology, for sure. His consideration of her offer for him to play guitar. Maybe his acknowledgment of her job well done right after the puppet show. I'm tempted to say the looks during Edelweiss, but that crosses a line for me from respect to something else. What am I missing? |
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 15, 2022 22:46:53 GMT
I think also the very fact that he danced with her at the party is different to any previous governesses - others would have been pushed very much to the background, in the same way that the kids were only allowed to look in from the outside. Of course it was because he felt attracted to her, but I think it was also the respect he had for her that pushed him to take her hand in the Laendler.
Similarly, when Max asked for Maria to attend the dinner, Georg would have brushed away any other governess - but there was something stopping him from slighting her which meant he didn't want to say no.
And on the terrace when Maria returns from the Abbey, it's a small thing, but the way he descends the steps to be more on her level could be seen as as much as a measure of respect as of him wanting to get closer to her - who knows, but I have always seen it as an attempt by him to stop appearing to be so 'high and mighty' (both literally, on the top of the steps, but also less her boss and more her equal). Particularly so as he played such a superior card when she first arrived at the villa.
What would have happened between them at that point if Elsa had not turned up?!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 17, 2022 19:48:25 GMT
Yes, absolutely the Laendler. I didn't put that on my list because I felt that him asking her to dance went beyond respect even. Or maybe, more accurately, it is both respect and something more. I could think about that all day.
Oh, the invite to dinner. This scene tortures me. Georg's actions here are both respectful (in not refusing Max's request because the lowly governess has no place at the party) and disrespectful (because he knows he is putting her in an uncomfortable position where she doesn't want to be there but can't say no, and also has nothing appropriate to wear).
On the terrace is a really good one! He does walk down the stairs towards her, but doesn't actually go all the way down. Why? He had no problem being in her personal space during the Laendler. Is he afraid he'll scare her away if he gets too close?
I think if Elsa hadn't shown up, Georg would continue with his gentle questioning trying to figure out what happened. Maria would want to get away from him as quickly as possible to go cry in her room. Maybe Maria would make up some excuse about needing to help the children get ready for dinner so that she could escape the conversation? Maybe Georg would tell her how he feels about her in case she decided to leave again right away? Has anyone written or read any fanfiction that has this scene with no Elsa interruption?
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Post by missisa on Oct 18, 2022 20:21:05 GMT
I think that even if Elsa hadn't shown up, Georg wouldn't have expressed his feelings at the time. He is an engaged man and wounded in his pride. Perhaps his curiosity to investigate could have made Maria uncomfortable, even bothering her beyond the appropriate and finally forcing her excuse to be absent, but there would be no statement of love here given the circumstances and the fact that they were both so exposed, with so many people hanging around. A fanfic in the opposite direction would be refreshing!
By the way, I loved the thoughts about the gestures of respect.
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