|
Post by augiesannie on Nov 30, 2013 20:24:23 GMT
i was always a little nonplussed by "So Long Farewell." One, he doesn't want his children to sing in public . . . so they do. (I resolved that doubt with a few lines of dialogue in Walled Garden.) Two, though, did the song really include the line "I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne?" Unlikely. So maybe the verse was supposed to say something else and Liesl changed it?
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Nov 30, 2013 20:41:49 GMT
I believe Maria would have been able to convince him that singing in their own home in front of (mostly) friends is not "in public"; that also helps make sense of Max's comment later after Elsa's stealth attack, of getting the little Fraulein to influence Georg to allow the children to sing in the festival.
I have to agree the champagne line never made terribly much sense to me, as in most of Europe children were/are brought up with alcoholic beverages not being a "thing" like it is here in the States. I think they just needed a rhyme with 'auf wiedersehn'. Not a whole lot of options for that, lol
|
|
|
Post by lisab1991 on Nov 30, 2013 20:44:35 GMT
Or perhaps they did it on purpose? She finally had her father's attention after all, without playing any of the infamous tricks.. Because I really can't think of any other line she might have altered/excluded.. But on the other hand, it would seem rather improbable..
I'd like to add that she thinks of herself as a young adult, so no longer as a child anymore. That would sort of explain her eagerness to drink that champagne for the first time..
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Nov 30, 2013 21:56:39 GMT
i think i read in one of the books that singing for company was a "hobby" while singing in public was a "job". and uncouth, beneath them job.
and the thing about champagne... i think she wanted to stay at the party. tasting champagne was code. maybe. i dunno.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Nov 30, 2013 22:15:17 GMT
Yes, in the story (as you know), Maria successfully argues that this isn't really singing in public. I just don't see her teaching the children a song that includes that line. Other possibilities:
"If Father marries her I'll go insane" about Elsa. "I met my Nazi boyfriend in the rain."
|
|
|
Post by lisab1991 on Nov 30, 2013 22:28:20 GMT
That would surely ruin her reputation, poor child, haha!
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Nov 30, 2013 23:09:33 GMT
i vote nazi in the rain!! how about 'the rain, in spain, falls mainly on the plain'... doot dootle doot doot doot doo!
funny, i never minded the champagne line. the 'i flit, i float, i fleetly flee, i fly.' drove me nuts. now THAT is a stupid line.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Nov 30, 2013 23:42:02 GMT
well, and there's the whole way Maria kind of stands there with a weird look on her face which doesn't seem to reflect either her post-laendler daze or a focus on the children's performance. But someone's probably out-analyzed me here.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Dec 1, 2013 3:00:44 GMT
I just checked a whole bunch of random shots throughout So Long, and in every one she was focused on the child being featured. I did notice a shot where Elsa looks at some of the people surrounding her and Georg, and seems to look over to where Maria is standing, and gets a scowl on her face.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Dec 1, 2013 11:40:09 GMT
Yes, EP's great acting. Maria just looks .... dazed. or subdued. And no wonder. It takes a lot out of you when you're not used to dancing.
I guess I've decided that Liesl re-wrote the line and that Maria is just too dazed to react.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Dec 1, 2013 18:44:14 GMT
Dazed is a good word. I know I'd be dazed if I'd come that close to kissing Captain von Sexypants
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 1, 2013 20:00:15 GMT
dazed is a good way to put it... i always just wondered why she didn't seem to react to what the children were doing. if they had a close shot of her, it could have added so much yumminess to the laendler and the bedroom scene that follows. as it is it just looks like she was trying to stay out of way.
sigh.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Dec 1, 2013 22:55:02 GMT
She probably was trying to stay out of the way--first, because she was quite humble and wouldn't have wanted to be noticed, and also remember the puppet show? "they're your children, Captain" when he tried to compliment her. And then, because, well, she's all dazed at being That Close to Him.
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 1, 2013 23:16:40 GMT
yes, i like that. i'm just saying it would have been extra angsty if they had a close up of her at some point...
but yes... still trying to get over that dance. maybe eager for this number to be over so she can escape, tuck in the kiddies and go have an epic meltdown in her room. i mean, that's what i could have done... yeah.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Dec 2, 2013 2:32:47 GMT
yes, i like that. i'm just saying it would have been extra angsty if they had a close up of her at some point... but yes... still trying to get over that dance. maybe eager for this number to be over so she can escape, tuck in the kiddies and go have an epic meltdown in her room. i mean, that's what i could have done... yeah. Absolutely!
|
|
|
Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Dec 4, 2013 6:54:26 GMT
She probably was trying to stay out of the way--first, because she was quite humble and wouldn't have wanted to be noticed, and also remember the puppet show? "they're your children, Captain" when he tried to compliment her. And then, because, well, she's all dazed at being That Close to Him. You talk about 'Him' as though he's God.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Dec 4, 2013 11:56:33 GMT
Sorry, I mean no offense. Just accentuating the momentousness of what had just happened between them.
|
|
|
Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Dec 5, 2013 0:27:08 GMT
None taken. As you said, it is very momentous
|
|
|
Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Dec 5, 2013 0:28:37 GMT
i vote nazi in the rain!! how about 'the rain, in spain, falls mainly on the plain'... doot dootle doot doot doot doo! funny, i never minded the champagne line. the 'i flit, i float, i fleetly flee, i fly.' drove me nuts. now THAT is a stupid line. I think Georg would be more likely to allow her a glass of champagne than a NAZI boyfriend
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 5, 2013 0:55:47 GMT
yes. i was more or less just applauding the cleverly invented alternate verse for the song.
he nixes both, so...
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Dec 5, 2013 1:09:53 GMT
as always, you have done much more with my question than I ever could have dreamed.
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 5, 2013 2:28:52 GMT
you ask good questions.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 16, 2013 0:38:41 GMT
I have an idea Maria was looking dazed because the Captain had, at this point, slipped her the requisite number of vodkas to get her well and truly tiddled. THIS is why she doesn't react...
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Dec 16, 2013 0:46:23 GMT
HA! And then Elsa's little visit to her bedroom foiled his plot!
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 16, 2013 2:49:26 GMT
heeee. she said "tiddled"...
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 17, 2013 0:31:50 GMT
'Tiddled' is such a lovely word, because it suggests all the good things about having too much alcohol, like feeling happy and giggly, rather than most other words which bring in less pleasant effects - inebriated, drunk, sloshed, etc!
I think the reason the Captain looked so morose coming out onto the terrace through the loggia doors (when his kids were singing SOM for Max), was that he was shocked when he realised she had left without saying goodbye. He immediately thought Maria had realised he had spiked her drink and had left to complain to the RM; how embarrassing that this would soon become public knowledge! No surprise he made a dash for the baroness...
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Dec 17, 2013 0:53:38 GMT
so true about the word... also gives the impression that inhibitions have been let go. but not in an embarrassing way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 23:33:51 GMT
Once again, I am so glad I have you all...because...I'm wondering about Maria and alcohol. This should possibly be its own thread but what the heck, let's try it out here...
I want to ask for thoughts/opinions on when/if Maria started drinking? I'm assuming that she would at least have to hold a glass of champagne or wine during her time as the Baroness Von Trapp. I know some fanfics have had her drinking for the first time while on her Honeymoon with Georg. That makes sense. It is something he could introduce her to and what better place than Paris?
Would she have waited that long? Would there have been a time during their engagement where she would be confronted with a toast at a formal party and then what? Did she and Georg have drinking lessons? :-)
Since the original point of this thread was Liesl at the party, it makes me wonder what would have happened if Maria had joined them for dinner as Max's guest? I imagine he would have encouraged her to imbibe. Not pressure her, just encourage her to join in with everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Jun 8, 2014 11:15:03 GMT
I think he would have introduced Maria to the fine art of wine appreciation before they married. No real reason other than he had a wine cellar Max enjoyed raiding, so I assume Georg enjoyed it and would want her to enjoy it as well.
And contrary to popular opinion, I do think Maria would have had Liesl sing about wanting to stay and taste champagne. Each of the verses reflect the children's personalities. Liesl longed to be thought of as a young lady no longer in need of a governess, so staying at an 'adult' party and having champagne would have been part of that.
|
|
|
Post by thoughts-of-joy-dreams-of-love on Jun 8, 2014 13:06:18 GMT
Yeah, I agree that the champagne line may have been the written one... It does reflect Liesl's personality, as utility-singer said, and I can't think of any real alternatives. As for whether Maria drank before or after her wedding, I think it could go either way. Though I definitely see her first drink being alone with G, because I just don't see her doing something so foreign to her for the first time in front of a bunch of people. (Plus it would be a precious/possibly spicy M/G moment)
|
|