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Post by clarinetjamie on Apr 27, 2019 8:18:27 GMT
Honestly I think we first see that vulnerability when Maria falls out of the boat and she dismisses herself before their heated argument. The way she checks over Maria and then glances at both of them before turning to leave. We see glimpses of it throughout the movie. After the puppet show when she catches Georg giving Maria so much undivided attention before they leave the ballroom and then her snide remark to Max about the harmonica and the look on her face when she catches Georg and Maria watching each other during Edelweiss. Later in the ballroom during the Landler and her response to them about making a good couple and even that moment when Max asks Maria to stay for the party. I think though that one of the biggest moments of vulnerability is when Maria comes back and Elsa comes out to find her there. She is quick to go and stand by Georg and hold his hand. When Maria begins to enter the house Georg drops her hand like a hot potato while turning towards Maria to ask her if she's staying. I think it's at that moment when she comes to the realization that the game is over and Maria has won Georg's affections and she has lost. Just my two sense worth. You can see the look of worry and concern on her face in that moment, Maria was the last person she wanted to see back at the villa.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 9, 2020 13:07:06 GMT
Why do you think Elsa is the only character in the movie that smokes?
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Post by emilia78 on May 9, 2020 16:39:07 GMT
Why do you think Elsa is the only character in the movie that smokes? She is rich, modern, aristocrat, a viennese socialite, and widow. She enjoys life!! |
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on May 22, 2020 4:46:31 GMT
Why do you think Elsa is the only character in the movie that smokes? Could it be because that's how she copes with stress? Seems like a possibility. |
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Post by indigoblue on May 22, 2020 23:07:06 GMT
I'm sure that in previous years, the Captain would have smoked too, but the anti-smoking thing was just beginning, so maybe the decision was made to keep him smoke-free. This may have been to ensure his image was not 'tarnished' (although I'm fairly sure CP smoked IRL).
Having said that, Max is the sort of character who might well have smoked, but doesn't.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 15, 2020 17:10:49 GMT
I wonder how often Georg and Elsa have had conversations that were not just superficial pleasantries. The lake scene seems like the first time they have talked about some of these emotional issues - him running away from memories, her bringing meaning back into his life, etc. Maybe seeing him relaxed (in his natural habitat) gave Elsa the in she was looking for to talk to him on a deeper level than she had in the past? She seems to start every topic of this conversation.
Does he put himself down often? She seems to imply this after he is surprised that she finds him exciting. He doesn't seem like someone who shows anyone that he lacks confidence.
And speaking of confidence, is Elsa confident in herself or desperately looking for validation? Maybe she is confident in herself as a party planner and socialite, but not in a relationship? It always makes me a little sad when she starts in with "I am amusing, I suppose." She starts listing her positive attributes (which are all kind of superficial). When people state how great they are, they are often needing whoever they are talking with to resoundingly agree in order to help their own lack of self esteem. I feel bad for her that she needs this. She is beautiful and powerful and important in her circle, but it isn't enough.
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Post by riana11 on Jun 16, 2020 18:20:35 GMT
I agree this seems to be the first deeper conversation they have had. I think she has been trying all along to get to know him better and maybe he always changed the subject. He seems to even have his walls up around her, who he is supposedly intent on marrying. I think she calls him a riddle or a puzzle or something like that. I think he uses these walls as a way to cover his vulnerability or any lack of confidence. I don't think Elsa is someone who has had any insecurity issues in relationships in the past with anyone else, but when she meets Georg it is different. She is attracted to him, she wants him, he will make a good match. She says she is fond of him though, but not in love with him. I think she keeps trying to get in deeper but keeps failing that is why she says his wife left him with a terrible heartache.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 21, 2020 19:44:20 GMT
What do you think Elsa's first impression of the children are? She is doing all that she can to not laugh when they fall in the water. She smiles and kind of bites her lip when she is introduced to them. Is she nervous because she needs their approval before Georg will propose? Is she amused because she knows Georg prides himself on being put together, and he is flustered by how chaotic this introduction is turning out? We don't really see any interaction between her and the children until Maria is gone and they are securing their one way ticket to boarding school with the ball game. Do you think she ever tried to interact with them before this? Attachments:
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 23, 2020 22:55:01 GMT
I guess she is alarmed by his reaction to them being in/out of the boat, judging by her expressions above; she also said when Georg was berating Rolf for throwing stones at Liesl's window "He's just a boy...", so she has a more sympathetic perspective on things.
She also told Georg (when Gretel presented her with a posy ?of Edelweiss) that his children were very charming, so she makes the right noises, even if she doesn't really like them.
Do we actually know if she has any kids of her own?
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Jul 25, 2020 1:49:24 GMT
I am not sure if she had kids or not. I do have an theory/ idea.
If Elsa had kids, I think they could be in boarding school. Perhaps after their father died (assuming she was married, had kids, and then widowed), she went into a brooding grief type thing; the same thing Georg did. When that happened, she sent the kids to boarding school because they reminded her too much of their father. When meeting G's children, she suggests boarding school thinking that it will "help" his grief. Also, she sees it as a way to get rid of the competition: Maria. However, she shows varying levels of sympathy towards everyone/everything.
Does it sound like a plausible theory?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 25, 2020 15:16:49 GMT
I always assumed that she did not have children of her own, though it is interesting to think about. One would have to assume that she is a hands off mother, and that her own children are in boarding school if they do exist. Otherwise, wouldn't they come along to meet their new potential siblings? Or do we think they'd be older? How old do we think Elsa is? Would she still be "baroness machiavelli" if her own children were in boarding school and she planned to send Georg's there too? It would just seem normal, not manipulative to suggest this from Max's point of view, wouldn't it? Though, she does seem tolerant of Rolf's youthful stupidity, and has patience with the children's constant presence and many performances. Maybe she is more maternal than I give her credit for.
Assuming for a moment that she does have children, how many do you think she has and how old do you think they are?
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Jul 26, 2020 4:37:09 GMT
To start with, I think Elsa is perhaps in her late 30's early 40's. Maybe a few years younger than Georg. I think if she had children, they would probably be around 14 or 15, and at their youngest, maybe 8 or 9 years old.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 30, 2021 0:37:42 GMT
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 20, 2021 22:16:18 GMT
A hint of vulnerability there ....
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2021 22:59:59 GMT
So after Maria leaves to go upstairs to find something more suitable to wear to the party, Elsa turns and looks like she is going to say something to Georg, but then he gets occupied with other guests and she slinks off to visit Maria. What do you think she would have said??
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 26, 2021 22:51:23 GMT
It did cross my mind that she might have suggested that she should see HIM in HIS bedroom in a few minutes, to demonstrate her 'pull' over him at that point...
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 26, 2021 23:12:56 GMT
It did cross my mind that she might have suggested that she should see HIM in HIS bedroom in a few minutes, to demonstrate her 'pull' over him at that point... not sure she feels confident about that pull. He kind of shuts her down after "searching just like you." |
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 26, 2021 23:23:26 GMT
Yes, maybe that is why she decided to go and act on Maria instead.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 27, 2021 13:39:22 GMT
It did cross my mind that she might have suggested that she should see HIM in HIS bedroom in a few minutes, to demonstrate her 'pull' over him at that point... not sure she feels confident about that pull. He kind of shuts her down after "searching just like you." I think she was going to offer a lame reason of Maria not needing to. Or it not being appropriate. But then thought better of it, and followed her upstairs. |
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Post by indigoblue on May 2, 2021 22:31:25 GMT
Considering the party was supposed to be for Georg to introduce Elsa to his friends, he leaves her unaccompanied for a lot of the time, not just when he is dancing with Maria. I can see why she feels desperate enough to want to shoo Maria away, and then get engaged as soon as possible...maybe she proposed?
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Post by augiesannie on May 3, 2021 10:18:32 GMT
there is so much we don't know about what happened at that party. we need people to write stories about it!
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 25, 2023 23:51:38 GMT
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 28, 2023 2:36:48 GMT
Ooh, you can pick different colors! Elsa looks fabulous just as she is, but I would probably change it up if I were getting it for myself. Maybe burgundy or royal blue. I wouldn't fit in at the grand and glorious party at all! Everyone there had on gold or yellow or tan. |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 24, 2024 0:40:05 GMT
Do you think Elsa can sing or play an instrument (besides her sarcastic harmonica)? It would be typical at that time for people to learn to play an instrument, I would think, since people didn’t have tvs/phones/computers to entertain them in the evenings. What do you think she plays?
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 25, 2024 0:35:04 GMT
Do you think Elsa can sing or play an instrument (besides her sarcastic harmonica)? It would be typical at that time for people to learn to play an instrument, I would think, since people didn’t have tvs/phones/computers to entertain them in the evenings. What do you think she plays? I feel like it would have to be something where there is some detachment between the musician and her instruments so … piano? Harp? OTOH I could maybe see her being a sultry lounge type singer? |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 29, 2024 20:42:45 GMT
Do you think Elsa can sing or play an instrument (besides her sarcastic harmonica)? It would be typical at that time for people to learn to play an instrument, I would think, since people didn’t have tvs/phones/computers to entertain them in the evenings. What do you think she plays? I feel like it would have to be something where there is some detachment between the musician and her instruments so … piano? Harp? OTOH I could maybe see her being a sultry lounge type singer? Well, she certainly has the voice to be a sultry lounge singer. I like your piano or harp ideas better though. Both are quite sophisticated and graceful. I'm going to go with harp, only because people often call harmonicas mouth harps, and we know she has a thing for harmonicas. I imagine her sitting very ladylike with both legs on one side of the instrument, which would add to the detachment. |
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Post by indigoblue on Mar 1, 2024 0:52:11 GMT
Flute, perhaps?
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