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Post by augiesannie on Apr 19, 2014 12:50:47 GMT
Since there have been so many stories lately about M&G's - uh - first intimate experiences, I thought I'd share this summary from her book "Maria" which I haven't read. So I don't know if this is really what the book says:
"And in November of 1927, Maria Kutschera did marry Georg von Trapp. He was forty-seven. She was twenty-two and ready to serve God "where He needed her most".
But Maria had large gaps in her sex education. And she still had her heart set on being a nun. In her mind, she was merely "extending her leave of absence" in order to raise the Baron's children. Martina was only four, so she would need a mother's care the longest.
"There wasn't any question of having children. I was only to bring up those he had already had.... But I made one fatal mistake: I thought it only happens if you want children." (Maria)
She went so far as to tell her fiance on the eve of their wedding that she still thought marriage an unnecessary step. They could still raise his kids together, after all. The shy former submarine captain only squeezed her hand. She was a college graduate, after all. Surely she didn't...? What had the nuns told her?? Perhaps he began to understand after the ceremony when she suggested he go ahead on the honeymoon and she would follow later.
"When I did understand it--it was too late." (Maria)
The betrayal was sharp. She had offered her chaste self to God and He had given her to someone else! Maria uses the story of Rachel, Leah, and Jacob to describe her feelings of being switched out. "Blazing mad", she told God she didn't want Him anymore, either. For weeks, she found excuses to avoid going to church. But on Christmas Day, she went to confession and decided to let God back into her life. And from then on, the von Trapps always celebrated that as their real wedding anniversary."
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Post by paula on Apr 20, 2014 0:13:09 GMT
I have read her book, and I remember this! Too bad the real Georg von Trapp didn't look like Christopher Plummer!  |
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 20, 2014 3:23:45 GMT
It's really kind of sad, if that is the case. Though she did end up loving him in the end. I haven't read that book, though I would certainly like to. And while Maria herself told CP he was much more handsome than her husband, well, he's more handsome than pretty much everyone so no comparison there.
I do wonder if some of the whole story is a bit lost in the translation, though. If she was that shy and innocent, how much would she be comfortable sharing? And assuming it was written in her native German, how much of the nuance of the language, or colloquialisms, would be lost?
In the Story of the Trapp Family Singers, she jumps right from the wedding to telling the children they'll be having a baby, so it certainly is curious, and I'd love to know more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 6:51:17 GMT
Yeah, that's really sad that she wasn't completely and totally in love with him in real life like she was in the movie.
As far as lack of sex ed, I can't help but remember back to (and have a chuckle) about that awful story from a few months ago where it was just a sex ed class morphed into a story ("are you ill?" he he he he!!)
But back on topic, probably a bit of a shock to the system for Maria to suddenly find herself pregnant if she didn't realise that "it" could happen if you are doing "it"!
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 20, 2014 11:04:16 GMT
yes, I always thought many fanfics overdid her innocence, but in this case perhaps art imitated life!
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 20, 2014 23:44:37 GMT
I suppose it is quite possible Maria was amazingly innocent, considering her (??) parents were dead and she was brought up by a nasty uncle; he wouldn't have taken it upon himself to tell her about it all! And if she went straight from school into the convent...well, there wasn't any reason for her to know!! I can see how it could happen, if no-one else took it upon themselves to tell her. Not surprising she ended up pregnant...
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 21, 2014 1:23:14 GMT
I suppose it is quite possible Maria was amazingly innocent, considering her (??) parents were dead and she was brought up by a nasty uncle; he wouldn't have taken it upon himself to tell her about it all! And if she went straight from school into the convent...well, there wasn't any reason for her to know!! I can see how it could happen, if no-one else took it upon themselves to tell her. Not surprising she ended up pregnant... I think the only surprise would be that their first baby was born 14 months after the wedding. And of course because my mind works that way, I wonder how patient he was with her, regarding her 'wifely duties'. |
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Post by mireille on Apr 21, 2014 8:55:37 GMT
Well 5months can be a long wait  I think he was patient with her. I mean he went away during their engagement and make her feel treasured through the letters. So why wouldn't he be impatient during the honeymoon and afterwards. Do you think she would have stayed in his room after the wedding? When she did he might have helped her with her feelings..... |
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Post by lemacd on Apr 21, 2014 15:04:55 GMT
Wow. It is sad. But there was a happier ending so that's worth focusing on.
Her anger at God suggests to me that G was probably very understanding as she didn't hold resentment against him. Not mainly. As for innocence, "it" is what married people do. "It" was the difference between just raising the children together like the original arrangement and the decision to finally marry. I think M knew "it" was expected. There didn't have to be guilt about. They were married. Hey, I like to think M considered it recompense and enjoyed it. You know, when I do think about it. She just didn't expect a baby.
Maybe the reality of baby shattered any glimmer of hope that things could somehow be undone. Like maybe this was a test and God would say "well done. Now go be a nun. It's ok."
Just rambling on my tiny iPod. Not easy.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 21, 2014 16:58:46 GMT
Well 5months can be a long wait I think he was patient with her. I mean he went away during their engagement and make her feel treasured through the letters. So why wouldn't he be impatient during the honeymoon and afterwards. Do you think she would have stayed in his room after the wedding? When she did he might have helped her with her feelings..... Oh, I agree---IRL he was very kind, I mean, how many men would hold her while she sobs about the fact she's been told it is God's will that she marry him? Maybe that's also part of the reason he left the house---so she could be with the children (whom she already loved) and not feel uncomfortable with him there; getting to know one another through the letters had to have increased her comfort level with the situation. I just find the whole dynamic so fascinating. I was kind of surprised a baby didn't happen sooner. If she thought all you had to do was not 'want' one, they obviously didn't use any other means of prevention ;-) |
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Post by paula on Apr 21, 2014 20:42:43 GMT
I was kind of surprised a baby didn't happen sooner. If she thought all you had to do was not 'want' one, they obviously didn't use any other means of prevention ;-) They were Catholic so I doubt they would have anyway. Not sure what methods of birth control were available then. |
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 22, 2014 0:19:38 GMT
yes, while I suppose it was always possible to get some form of contraception or practice rhythm, I bet they didn't. She had kidney problems I think, it might not have been that easy for her to get and stay pregnant. It IS fascinating!
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Post by paula on Apr 22, 2014 7:33:00 GMT
I loved what Maria said DID make her actually fall in love with Georg! Anybody remember that?
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 22, 2014 11:03:33 GMT
Refresh my memory?
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Post by lemacd on Apr 22, 2014 13:41:51 GMT
yes, while I suppose it was always possible to get some form of contraception or practice rhythm, I bet they didn't. She had kidney problems I think, it might not have been that easy for her to get and stay pregnant. It IS fascinating! She had a number of miscarriages if I recall and understand the brief references. I would like to know too paula. |
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 22, 2014 17:38:24 GMT
Just ordered the book this morning so I can look stuff up whenever I want. I don't think the public library liked that I had it for 11 weeks last summer.
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Post by paula on Apr 22, 2014 17:39:59 GMT
At some point, she asked Georg how she could best make him happy, and he responded, "Become exactly like Agathe." So she asked people what Agathe had been like, and set about trying to copy her in every way. This included knitting, and she stopped doing all the outdoor activities they had enjoyed as a family before. Georg couldn't understand the change in Maria, and she finally told him she was trying to be like Agathe. Georg took her knitting and threw it in a corner, then swept Maria into his arms and told her that wasn't what he meant. He wanted her to be as kind and loving as Agathe had been, but otherwise to be herself! That was when she fell in love with him. I might not be telling it exactly right, but that's the gist of it.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 22, 2014 19:37:28 GMT
Wow, I don't remember that at all! Can't wait for the book to get here so I can re-read it.
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Post by mireille on Apr 22, 2014 22:51:22 GMT
Interesting paula . My first thought was.: how can he say that? I would be mad if someone told me to be like someone er else. ... The fact that she did those things proves me that she wanted to do everything for the children and subconsciously also for him. |
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Post by mireille on Apr 22, 2014 22:52:26 GMT
Sorry I somehow double posted.
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 23, 2014 0:41:34 GMT
At some point, she asked Georg how she could best make him happy, and he responded, "Become exactly like Agathe." So she asked people what Agathe had been like, and set about trying to copy her in every way. This included knitting, and she stopped doing all the outdoor activities they had enjoyed as a family before. Georg couldn't understand the change in Maria, and she finally told him she was trying to be like Agathe. Georg took her knitting and threw it in a corner, then swept Maria into his arms and told her that wasn't what he meant. He wanted her to be as kind and loving as Agathe had been, but otherwise to be herself! That was when she fell in love with him. I might not be telling it exactly right, but that's the gist of it. that's as good a story as any fanfic! |
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Apr 23, 2014 2:54:34 GMT
That's what I was about to say
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Post by paula on Apr 23, 2014 3:17:55 GMT
If I had my book with me, I'd have looked it up and quoted it exactly. But I'm in South Carolina at the moment and my book is in Tennessee! I thought it was very sweet, even though I think telling her to be just like the first wife would have been awfully discouraging, too.
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 23, 2014 3:39:14 GMT
Well, he was a man, and men are notoriously bad communicators.
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 23, 2014 13:34:35 GMT
i ordered the book!!!
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Post by lemacd on Apr 23, 2014 14:13:13 GMT
Which book are we talking about?
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Apr 24, 2014 2:57:26 GMT
I'm guessing the real maria's autobiography
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Post by utility_singer on Apr 24, 2014 3:20:49 GMT
I ordered both---the Story of the Trapp Family Singers, and Maria
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Post by lemacd on Apr 24, 2014 3:23:43 GMT
thanks. i've read 'the story of the trapp family singers' maaaany times, but not 'maria'. but i want to. just as soon as i get through 'in spite of myself'.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Apr 24, 2014 4:36:03 GMT
Right now I'm ready 'Home' - normally I find biographies boring, but I can't get enough of this one (Can't imagine why)
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I think he was patient with her. I mean he went away during their engagement and make her feel treasured through the letters. So why wouldn't he be impatient during the honeymoon and afterwards. Do you think she would have stayed in his room after the wedding? When she did he might have helped her with her feelings.....
