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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 21:11:35 GMT
A couple of people commented on part of my car prompt story (She drive me crazy) about how I had Georg go and look in on the children before he left for Vienna and how even in that early part of the movie, even when he was still hidden under the many layers of grief and shutting everything out that he still loved his children very deeply.
I thought it might be fun to discuss this. Here are some of the little moments that I see in those first few scenes that I can see underneath that harsh exterior is a father who loves his children very much.
1. Nothing wrong with the children, only the governesses.
2. The way he almost playfully reprimands Brigitta by giving her a gentle tap with the book rather than just rip into her,
3. The little half-apologetic smile when he tells Maria Gretl's name when she forgets to say it herself.
4. The look of almost surprise when the children say "oh not again father" at dinner.
There may be more but with all of these things, I can sense a love but is reluctant to show it (maybe not the right word but I hope you can get what I'm trying to say).
Also I just wondered why Georg would have gone to Maria's room on the first night since her room was on the opposite side of the house as I wouldn't have thought the sound of their singing would have carried that far. Was he going to check on the children before going to bed himself, found their beds empty and went searching for them? Ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 22:15:00 GMT
I whole-heartedly agree with number 1. In fact, have pointed it out myself before that the very first thing he does is to defend them. :-)
Number 2 speaks volumes, IMO, about the relationship he still has with them.
Number 3 always makes me smile.
Number 4 just makes me believe that things were just awkward but not impossible, something I think the rest of the movie proves. :-)
I wonder, was he checking on the children before going to bed or checking on their new governess? ;-)
Fun topic!
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 6, 2014 22:43:31 GMT
Also, in Edelweiss, Liesl comes down to sing with him at the slightest nod of his head.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 22:58:46 GMT
@tantekj, I saw your PM about no.1 (sorry I still have to reply) and two others had mentioned that scene in my story when he goes to say goodbye so putting all that together was the reason I started this thread!!
So was he checking in the children or the governess? Regardless to whether there are an instant 'spark' between M and G early on (even if that didn't know of it at the time), I don't think Georg would have a reason to visit Maria's room in the middle of the night (Frau Schmidt had already checked on Maria and given her the material) except for either looking for the children or hearing the singing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 23:49:31 GMT
:-) no worries! It's all good. It's a fun thread.
I know there would be probably no reason for him to check on her. Just having some fun. :-)
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 7, 2014 1:39:59 GMT
I love this thread. When I first read your story, I thought it ws a little AU for him to do it, and then the more I thought about it, I decided it was quite beautiful - I myself thought of #3.
I love #1-3 also. And maybe maybe maybe a #5 is the way he says, "as a matter of fact Marta, you are going to meet the Baroness, I'm bringing her back..." (not the exact words). It obviously is of some importance to him that they like her.
I can see #4 both ways. I think his look is a little harsh at that point, like, "what? I don't expect to hear that kind of whining." I totally get that he loves them, and I love the way you wrote in the story about how he could see his wife in each of them, but he is also capable of being pretty chilly - "I will not allow them to dream away their summer holidays." And there's the way he bellows "Straight line!" ,although of course he's embarassed because it's not how he wanted the children to meet Elsa. After all, he does admit to Maria that he doesn't know his children, so apparently even G thinks that there's room for improvement in their relationship.
Also I always saw the Liesl moment as different becaue a) he has the strongest history with her from "before," and also, that scene takes place after he has tried to reconcile with the children.
Great thread @charleybec!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 2:12:23 GMT
I didn't want to go AU or OOC with that moment of saying goodbye at all but I can understand how it might have seemed a bit so. I think I was trying to get inside Georg's head and emotions of what was going on inside him before being reunited with the children later on. I mean we all know he was devastated by Agathe's death and shut everything out. As Frau Schmidt says he shut out "everything that reminds him of her, even the children." But I think I thought that despite that he would have done sort of internal way of still loving them deeply and some way of showing it, even just to himself. Almost like the idea of him having photos in his study (which I and I think others have written into stories). He doesn't show outward affection but has inward affection for them. Just some thoughts.
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 7, 2014 3:44:21 GMT
Perhaps he was coming upstairs to retire himself for the evening, and heard the noises coming from Maria's room? He was already in his 'loungewear' of the smoking jacket.
I do think he loved them very much; I've always thought the way they conversed at the dining table was an indication of that.
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 7, 2014 6:27:09 GMT
@charleybec, that is such a great way to think about it - it's a window into his true feelings.
@utility_singer, agree, I love the way they converse during that scene. "Why would she want to see you?" is something i can imagine being said at my own dinner table.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 9:37:07 GMT
Yes despite the obvious frustrations of children whinging at the dining table (who hates that... Hands up. ME!!) I can just see that there are just some little glimmers of a loving relationship between Georg and the children regardless to him putting up walls around himself and having a harsh exterior.
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 7, 2014 12:59:06 GMT
Yes. I soooo relate to his "What IS the matter, Marta?" when the crying commences. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 14:33:30 GMT
And, also during dinner when he says, "And, Uncle Max." IMO he says in it such a way that tells the audience two bits of information - Max is someone with whom Georg obviously has a varied history BUT is also someone the children clearly adore. Georg's not nearly as excited as they are but he knows they will be excited to hear he's coming.
Augiesannie, I totally agree that he was embarrassed that Elsa was meeting his children that way. I do think that's why he's a little harsh with the way he says "Straight line!"
He's also clearly not amused by the fact that Elsa is at seeing them all fall out of the boat although there is the slightest expression on his face when they go overboard that is almost - almost - a smile. Of course, I haven't been able to decide if that's Georg's reaction or Christopher's. :-)
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 7, 2014 16:51:15 GMT
YES---and either way, it is very effective in allowing us another glimmer of Georg's true nature as a father.
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 7, 2014 17:28:00 GMT
agree!
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Post by patrickssong on Sept 10, 2015 14:03:44 GMT
Dredging up an old thread. Just a couple of observations. I apologise if anyone has already spotted these:
- As the family run through the cemetery, Georg is holding the hands of Lousia and Brigitta
- When Maria calls the party guests for the children's goodnight song, Georg grabs Elsa's hand and runs towards the stairs, dragging her along with him.
Just silly little things I guess, but for a man who was so distant from his children for what we think was a lengthy period of time, they are just telling little moments.
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 10, 2015 21:09:41 GMT
patrickssong Nice dredging! I don't think I ever noticed that cemetery point and look forward to checking it out!
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Sept 11, 2015 1:23:58 GMT
Me too
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Post by emilia78 on May 3, 2020 15:33:44 GMT
He's also clearly not amused by the fact that Elsa is at seeing them all fall out of the boat although there is the slightest expression on his face when they go overboard that is almost - almost - a smile. Of course, I haven't been able to decide if that's Georg's reaction or Christopher's. :-) Definitely Georg's reaction. This movie has been filmed,cut, edited, because of Robert Wise's perfectionism that there is no way a gesture or a reaction not discussed before and agreed with the director and scriptwriter, to have entered the scene. I think the point in his slightly hidden smile is that he hides his true loving and funny side under his authority and discipline, maybe because he does not know how to express his feelings, maybe because his first wife did everything with children at home while he was away commanding as a naval officer and his upbringing did not allow a man to express his feelings. |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 1, 2020 18:49:41 GMT
I was thinking today about after the Liesl and Maria 16 going on 17 reprise, Georg gives a forceful nod telling Liesl that she should leave the room, and then quickly adds the affectionate cheek pat to let her know he's not angry with her. We all know of the wonderful transformation in Georg's treatment of his children that took place after they sang TSOM for Elsa, but I wonder how often his old self subconsciously slipped in. Surely he can't have gone from 100% emotionless disciplinarian to 100% playful father all in one step. I wonder how long it took for everyone to trust that they knew which Georg (or father) they would be talking to. Am I making any sense?
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 2, 2020 0:49:16 GMT
Yes, maybe their argument made him aware of how much his kids needed a more sympathetic father, and then I am sure that Maria would have begun a conversation during their honeymoon which may have altered his behaviour towards more tenderness.
But I think it likely that there were always times when the old personality came to the surface.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 5, 2020 13:17:05 GMT
I'm thinking that most of the time he is the "devoted father" Georg with his children, but that politics is the one thing that can bring about the old distant Georg. Liesl seems surprised with his initial dismissal of her, I think because he rarely acts like that anymore. But he quickly realizes that he shouldn't take his frustration with the Nazis out on her and adds his gentle touch.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 25, 2020 20:46:58 GMT
I just reread this thread, including the reminder that from the very beginning, we can see signs that he really does love them very much (and maybe the embrace at the end of “The Sound of Music” is more about music coming back into the house?) so maybe the transformation is not as dramatic as one might otherwise think. I like reverendcaptain ‘s idea that he has to soften his anger toward the Nazis in that scene with Liesl. |
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