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Post by augiesannie on Jul 1, 2015 14:30:10 GMT
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jul 1, 2015 18:06:10 GMT
Where to begin...........there are some things in the stage version that wouldn't work in the movie. While those two songs work great in the play, I don't think they would have worked as well in the movie. It's not your typical break out into song and dance routine movie. The songs are all very strategically placed and those two songs just wouldn't fit in the the film version and if they had used them they would have seemed rather awkward.
As far as Elsa goes, I do agree to a certain extent that they could have given her character a little more depth and made the movie less saccharine by adding a few more of the political innuendos into her character, but I don't think they completely avoided the politics of the time because they do make it very clear that they are leaving Austria because of the political unrest and seem to use Max's character to bring this side out a bit more than they do Elsa, but in the stage version she definitely has more of an opinion on the matter. While in the stage version they do indeed break up over politics it is no secret that the Captain is falling for Maria and that Elsa notices this as well. It may not have been the main reason for their breakup, but it was an underlying factor.
One thing I think the movie version does a way better job of is bringing out the Captain's character a bit more and this is in part due to the fact that Christopher Plummer plays him so impeccably well and brings some different dynamics to the character that aren't there in the stage version. They do a better job of bringing his character out a bit more.
As for the opening scene I think it was a wise choice to do it the way they did it in the movie. It works for the movie and is considered a very iconic opening scene. I wouldn't change it at all. The nuns do sing some of the liturgical choir pieces they just do it after that opening scene so they aren't completely left out. Again them singing at the beginning works great for the stage version, but not for the film so much.
As to the song Something Good, I just have a different viewpoint on that piece. I like that song and I like it better than Ordinary Couple, but that's just me.
Overall I like both the film and the stage version for varying reasons. I wouldn't want the movie to completely mirror the play or vice versa, but if I had to choose which one I like better I'd pick the movie every time.
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 1, 2015 19:33:57 GMT
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I disagree with the author vehemently. Each is great in their own way. I think the telecast last year (despite any other issues) proved that the stage version does not transfer well to screen as is. I'll have more to say but have to get back to packing.
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 1, 2015 20:49:20 GMT
Okay, I packed 10 boxes today, so I'm showered and ready to tackle this, LOL.
Wise and Lehmann made the decision to cut the songs and make the distinction between the (singing) family and the (non-singing) friends.
False. She is well aware, and the political differences are there in the movie as well.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jul 1, 2015 20:55:20 GMT
I couldn't picture CP's version of the Captain participating in singing scenes like "How Can Love Survive" and "No Way to Stop It" either. It would have been awkward and out of place.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Jul 1, 2015 20:55:25 GMT
Some things that popped into my head while reading:
Well first of all this has nothing to do with what the article is about and was pretty unnecessary, and it's thanks to comments like that that the unfortunate typecast lives on....
I do agree that it's important that not all female characters in film are reduced to women whose entire plotlines are driven by romance, but I don't really think that is an issue with the film. The "girl-on-girl aggression" that Hollywood couldn't resist? It's been a while since I read The Story of the Trapp Family Singers, but if I recall correctly, Princess Yvonne did confront Maria about receiving too much attention from the Captain, and they take this route in Die Trapp Familie as well. So it turns out the stage musical was the one with a changed plot as far as that's concerned. And the romantic angle for the breakup is far better for the plot than the political one.The romance in the show has always seemed more stilted to me, whereas in the film we get all those glances and longing stares and cute little interactions. Call me crazy, but if Elsa broke up with Georg because of politics after witnessing all that, it would be a little unbelievable to me.
Well, the film doesn't leave out the nuns' choir, it simply moves it to after the overture, which seems like a better place to me. Looking at it from the perspective of someone completely unfamiliar with the story who's seeing it for the first time, how does this show the abbey atmosphere is so unsuitable for a character we haven't even been introduced to yet?
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 1, 2015 20:59:25 GMT
Ugh, couldn't add more so here's another post.
One can easily create an abbey atmosphere in live theater. Movie theater? Not so much.
Are you kidding me? Feeling like you are ON the mountain communing with God's creation?
So what? Honestly, I don't care for either of the songs, and Stratford probably chose to use Something Good because it is provided by R&H as an alternative and many productions use it.
Uh, no, dummy. She made TSOM before she won the Oscar, so that isn't why he hired her. Due diligence, man.
His last quote about the 60s movies dumbing down anything concerning politics, if I thought about it for 10 minutes I could probably come up with a dozen that dealt seriously with political issues.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Jul 1, 2015 21:01:35 GMT
Honestly, I usually try to take criticisms seriously and if you look closely you can maybe find a good point in there about Something Good vs An Ordinary Couple or something, but mostly it sounds to me like the author is just trying to take advantage of all the 50th anniversary exposure and stir the pot...
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Post by utility_singer on Jul 1, 2015 21:36:09 GMT
Honestly, I usually try to take criticisms seriously and if you look closely you can maybe find a good point in there about Something Good vs An Ordinary Couple or something, but mostly it sounds to me like the author is just trying to take advantage of all the 50th anniversary exposure and stir the pot... I do see his point about An Ordinary Couple being a good counterpoint to How Can Love Survive. But if you take out the Max and Elsa number, there really isn't any other reason to keep it. It isn't a very good song, and R & H weren't happy with it themselves. Something Good is marginally better as a melody.
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 1, 2015 21:44:58 GMT
Agree with so much that you guys are saying here. I just always like to keep tabs on the other side ;-) Especially because the ONLY other times I've run across someone defending the play against the movie is a YouTube video with Theodore Bikel, and what do you expect? So I thought this was provocative and I was right! Lehmann, Wise, etc were smart about what makes a good movie. The love triangle (with some of the political stuff) worked much better than the other way around. That's a very interesting way of putting it, clarinetjamie, that one can't imagine CP arguing with Max and Elsa about no way to stop it (although he does challenge Max about getting cozy with the Nazis) and DEFINITELY not how can love survive - I like the way the film makes a bit of a mystery of E&G's relationship as opposed to their singing a song about it. Since many people, JA included, say that CP made the film, that proves the changes were smart ones!
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jul 1, 2015 22:37:36 GMT
Yes, he definitely challenges it and anyone who knows history knows enough to understand the political implications. I simply meant I couldn't see them actually singing about it, speaking yes, singing no.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Jul 1, 2015 23:08:40 GMT
Something Good is marginally better as a melody. I always say that I prefer the melody of Something Good, but the lyrics of An Ordinary Couple resonate a little more with me. But we've already discussed this elsewhere so I won't get too into that. His last quote about the 60s movies dumbing down anything concerning politics, if I thought about it for 10 minutes I could probably come up with a dozen that dealt seriously with political issues. Honestly. To Kill A Mockingbird and In The Heat of the Night are two that come immediately to mind, and if those ignore serious issues then I'm really wondering what kind of movie the author is looking for.
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