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Post by sillywhistle on Jun 13, 2020 20:28:38 GMT
How did Georg come to be such a (reformed) rake in the majority of fics? Was the real Georg a ladies man, pre-Agathe? Or is this more based off of Chris? His hedonistic past seems to be mentioned in almost every story, but I’m curious how that came about. 🤔
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Post by INeverExplainAnything on Jun 14, 2020 6:32:14 GMT
I think it is more based off Chris. I remember reading somewhere where the real GvT was a bit boring - as described by a relation. For me personally, I prefer a more Bronte-esque man who can suddenly be tamed by the simple love of a woman. Just a romantic notion I suppose!
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Post by juupke on Jun 14, 2020 9:26:32 GMT
My guess is that a sailor's stereotype reputation ('a girl in every port') has something to do with it as well. Add to that Georg Chris is a hot guy, and that makes for a heady combination that very much speaks to the imagination!  As for the reformed part, I suppose that's just the logical conclusion when considering how broken he became after his wife's death and how much he obviously must have loved her - that kind of love couldn't possibly have left any room or desire for other women. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 15, 2020 0:22:27 GMT
That’s such a good question sillywhistle, I really had to stop and think about why i always wrote him that way from the start. Because as INeverExplainAnything says, the real GvT was apparently a bore. I think for me it was one part Chris, one part that I love reading hot Regency romances and one part that it was so fun to write about! No one is more devoted than a reformed rake. Also agree with what juupke said. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 6:13:29 GMT
I think it is more based off Chris. I remember reading somewhere where the real GvT was a bit boring - as described by a relation. For me personally, I prefer a more Bronte-esque man who can suddenly be tamed by the simple love of a woman. Just a romantic notion I suppose! What does Bronte mean? |
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sandra
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Post by sandra on Jun 16, 2020 6:36:34 GMT
"What does Bronte mean?"
Charlotte Bronte's "Jane Eyre." Edward Rochester is a practically unconscious reference for most of us, as it's one of my favourite novels of all time. And it's got so much in common with TSOM that it's uncanny.
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 24, 2020 23:54:06 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this!
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Post by sillywhistle on Jun 25, 2020 0:04:15 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this! I must’ve just read one of yours... do you have one where Georg tells her that he’d made an agreement with Elsa to marry her and he has to follow through with it, but he wants Maria as his mistress because she’s the one who has his heart? And Maria tells him she’s not Jane and chooses to go along with it? I think that must be yours, because that story left me wanting more, as yours often do! I’d like to see a story fleshed out (pun intended) where they go this route, because no one ever writes it! |
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Post by sillywhistle on Jun 25, 2020 0:05:21 GMT
I also must confess, that though I’m middle aged, I’ve never read Jane Eyre. Adding to cart now... *hangs head in shame*
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 25, 2020 0:07:10 GMT
Hey, I’m middle aged too, and I’m also always trying new things! Good for you!
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 25, 2020 0:12:04 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this! I must’ve just read one of yours... do you have one where Georg tells her that he’d made an agreement with Elsa to marry her and he has to follow through with it, but he wants Maria as his mistress because she’s the one who has his heart? And Maria tells him she’s not Jane and chooses to go along with it? I think that must be yours, because that story left me wanting more, as yours often do! I’d like to see a story fleshed out (pun intended) where they go this route, because no one ever writes it! Yes, that was me. There’s another one I wrote nearly simultaneously where they are on their honeymoon, and only then does she tell him that she’d have lived in sin with him if necessary and he says some very nice things about marriage and then they .. well, never mind. People often say that it would be good to write a little bit more, and I have learned the hard way that they’re usually disappointed. So there’s that. Although as far as inspiration, I do remember something from one of shaharzad63’s stories where, during the gazebo scene, she misunderstands him to be proposing that they have an affair, and says she’ll accept that, and he rather chillingly lays out for her how painful it would be. If I recall, he talks about how they would have to call each other by their titles, and pretend formality with each other during the day, and sneak into each other’s beds at night. It does sound Iike a juicy story, doesn’t it? I haven’t written in a long time, and I do have a story in my mind which actually might have something in common with that scenario, so thank you for inspiring me!! |
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Post by sillywhistle on Jun 25, 2020 0:16:31 GMT
Hey, I’m middle aged too, and I’m also always trying new things! Good for you! Oh, I like trying new things too (currently working on a master’s degree and learning Italian), but I also strive to be well-read. There are definitely gaps in my literary knowledge, though. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 25, 2020 0:19:02 GMT
Oh gosh back to school! I don’t have enough brain cells left for that!!
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Post by sillywhistle on Jun 25, 2020 0:45:40 GMT
Oh gosh back to school! I don’t have enough brain cells left for that!! Thankfully I’m almost finished and it’s related to my career, so wasn’t too mentally taxing. I’m looking forward to this new thing you’re writing! |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 25, 2020 13:32:20 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this! Why do you think people don't like mistress stories? Fanfiction often pulls people out of character, so that can't be it. Fanfiction also often has them together before marriage, so it can't be a religion thing. Do you think people just find this too disrespectful towards Maria? I'm just wondering why the push back on this topic, and not on others. Have you read "What's in a look?" by warmwoollenmittens? Maria is not his mistress in this, though she would have been if that were how it had to be. |
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Post by juupke on Jun 27, 2020 20:49:43 GMT
I also must confess, that though I’m middle aged, I’ve never read Jane Eyre. Adding to cart now... *hangs head in shame* I may only be in my thirties (and as such don't consider myself middle aged), but I haven't read it either! Then again, English is not my first language, so my English reading list was considerably shorter than my Dutch one back in high school... if that's an excuse |
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 28, 2020 22:02:17 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this! Why do you think people don't like mistress stories? Fanfiction often pulls people out of character, so that can't be it. Fanfiction also often has them together before marriage, so it can't be a religion thing. Do you think people just find this too disrespectful towards Maria? I'm just wondering why the push back on this topic, and not on others. Have you read "What's in a look?" by warmwoollenmittens ? Maria is not his mistress in this, though she would have been if that were how it had to be. If Georg were married to the baroness and had an affair with Maria, it would be disrespectful to Elsa. Also, it wouldn't fit with the perception of Georg being the fine man and brave war hero (even though IRL I know people aren't always perfect). I think part of the fascination of the film is because love for Maria transforms Georg from an unapproachable, rather rigid and unhappy man into the sweet, sulky boy we see in the gazebo (Augiesannie's gorgeous description) - the classic redemption that we all love. Somehow Maria having an affair with him only serves to cheapen the whole story. |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 6, 2020 14:44:43 GMT
Are there any fics out there where Georg is not a rake before marriage? I have not read any with this plot. It would be interesting and add a different dimension to his character for him to have been career focused instead of a ladies man, and for him to only have been with Agathe before Maria.
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Post by sillywhistle on Jul 7, 2020 1:00:36 GMT
Are there any fics out there where Georg is not a rake before marriage? I have not read any with this plot. It would be interesting and add a different dimension to his character for him to have been career focused instead of a ladies man, and for him to only have been with Agathe before Maria. There is one where he’s not, like, some superior lover or something that is all arrogantly like, “I’m going to teach Maria all about the sweet lovin’”. Of course, I can’t remember which one it is. 😂 |
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Post by sillywhistle on Jul 7, 2020 1:02:53 GMT
Are there any fics out there where Georg is not a rake before marriage? I have not read any with this plot. It would be interesting and add a different dimension to his character for him to have been career focused instead of a ladies man, and for him to only have been with Agathe before Maria. There is one where he’s not, like, some superior lover or something that is all arrogantly like, “I’m going to teach Maria all about the sweet lovin’”. Of course, I can’t remember which one it is. 😂 Just kidding. I do know which it is. It’s What Is It You Can’t Face? by Warmwoollenmittens. |
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Post by itsdayandnight on Jul 7, 2020 9:07:07 GMT
Ohhh!! I remember reading this one before (and I re-read it very recently). I liked how he wasn't very superior in the beginning but then he did end up like the usual Georg towards the end tho (hehe fave part ❤).
I also haven't seen an un-rakey Georg, but that's a part of his appeal, I suppose. I would like to see how an un-rakey, career-driven Georg would be like, by the way! It's a very interesting concept. Well, hmmm, can I smell a fanfic to be written? Anyone?? 😀
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 7, 2020 10:27:53 GMT
Ohhh!! I remember reading this one before (and I re-read it very recently). I liked how he wasn't very superior in the beginning but then he did end up like the usual Georg towards the end tho (hehe fave part ❤). I also haven't seen an un-rakey Georg, but that's a part of his appeal, I suppose. I would like to see how an un-rakey, career-driven Georg would be like, by the way! It's a very interesting concept. Well, hmmm, can I smell a fanfic to be written? Anyone?? 😀 Hmmm. Let’s see. For him to be career driven, he’d need a career, what should it be? (Which raises another question which should really be its own thread: what exactly does he do all day other than stalk about the villa in his Trachten jacket? He’s retired from the navy. Some stories have him doing some vague sort of consulting for “good” countries, which can’t be historically correct but who cares. I wrote a story where he spent the day managing his and Elsa’s money. What do you think?.) I guess what I’m saying is that we’d have to invent another career for him, or set the story earlier in his life which would inconveniently resurrect his wife. Actually now that I think of it, this idea might work especially well in modern day settings. There’s a story underway now, “The Way Back,” that is set this way, and then there is the marvelous “Aigen Shipping,” and then there is one from years ago whose name escapes me. Those settings would really work for a career driven Georg who could easily be made unrakey. I do think unrakey G is a really interesting idea. I have this theory I’ve put in lots of my stories, that he has lost interest in women “that way,” that he had one brief interlude a year or so after his wife died where he took the equipment for a ride, so to speak, in Milan, and things did not go well. (Except in one case he fathered a child, but that was an exception). I’ve written that so many times as a side note, I really ought to write the actual story. Someday. Sigh. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 7, 2020 10:29:58 GMT
As I’m sure all of you know, it is often said that CP’s somewhat dark, severe interpretation “made” the film. I wrote a couple of stories riffing on the choice Jane makes to leave Rochester rather than live in sin with him when the truth comes out about his inconvenient wife. Put in Jane’s position, Maria says she’d make a different choice to stay. People did NOT like this! Why do you think people don't like mistress stories? Fanfiction often pulls people out of character, so that can't be it. Fanfiction also often has them together before marriage, so it can't be a religion thing. Do you think people just find this too disrespectful towards Maria? I'm just wondering why the push back on this topic, and not on others. Have you read "What's in a look?" by warmwoollenmittens? Maria is not his mistress in this, though she would have been if that were how it had to be. Some people need an HEA (happy ever after), what can I say? I’m sure I’ve read that story but I have to go refresh my memory now! |
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Post by warmwoollenmittens on Jul 7, 2020 10:52:50 GMT
I do love exploring the idea of Maria being his mistress but somehow can’t bring myself to write about it other than in a “fantasy” type thing that the already engaged/married M&G explore together. Though I did cover it a bit in “water under the bridge”.
I think I mostly struggle to keep it in character when they’re having an affair but there are some fab fics where this is covered really well and it’s super believable even while they remain in character.
When I wrote What is it You Can’t Face, I really struggled with writing Georg as an unlegendary lover because it somehow seems so engrained in his character to be a rake and a great teacher. But actually coming to think of it, there’s nothing to necessarily suggest this about him in canon. Very interesting topic to discuss!
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Post by itsdayandnight on Jul 7, 2020 11:46:23 GMT
Ohhh!! I remember reading this one before (and I re-read it very recently). I liked how he wasn't very superior in the beginning but then he did end up like the usual Georg towards the end tho (hehe fave part ❤). I also haven't seen an un-rakey Georg, but that's a part of his appeal, I suppose. I would like to see how an un-rakey, career-driven Georg would be like, by the way! It's a very interesting concept. Well, hmmm, can I smell a fanfic to be written? Anyone?? 😀 Hmmm. Let’s see. For him to be career driven, he’d need a career, what should it be? (Which raises another question which should really be its own thread: what exactly does he do all day other than stalk about the villa in his Trachten jacket? He’s retired from the navy. Some stories have him doing some vague sort of consulting for “good” countries, which can’t be historically correct but who cares. I wrote a story where he spent the day managing his and Elsa’s money. What do you think?.) I guess what I’m saying is that we’d have to invent another career for him, or set the story earlier in his life which would inconveniently resurrect his wife. Actually now that I think of it, this idea might work especially well in modern day settings. There’s a story underway now, “The Way Back,” that is set this way, and then there is the marvelous “Aigen Shipping,” and then there is one from years ago whose name escapes me. Those settings would really work for a career driven Georg who could easily be made unrakey. I do think unrakey G is a really interesting idea. I have this theory I’ve put in lots of my stories, that he has lost interest in women “that way,” that he had one brief interlude a year or so after his wife died where he took the equipment for a ride, so to speak, in Milan, and things did not go well. (Except in one case he fathered a child, but that was an exception). I’ve written that so many times as a side note, I really ought to write the actual story. Someday. Sigh. Hi! OMG, I'm the The Way Back author, btw!! I'm still working on it, but I'm kinda sure that my Georg is (or maybe was) lowkey rakey (I mean, it's in my character profile/background, soooo haha). I don't think I would want to part with slightly-rakey G, but would love to see another person's interpretation of this prompt, though! *Also, please do write it!! I think I speak for many of us when I say that I would love to read that  |
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Post by sillywhistle on Jul 7, 2020 12:10:40 GMT
I do love exploring the idea of Maria being his mistress but somehow can’t bring myself to write about it other than in a “fantasy” type thing that the already engaged/married M&G explore together. Though I did cover it a bit in “water under the bridge”. I think I mostly struggle to keep it in character when they’re having an affair but there are some fab fics where this is covered really well and it’s super believable even while they remain in character. When I wrote What is it You Can’t Face, I really struggled with writing Georg as an unlegendary lover because it somehow seems so engrained in his character to be a rake and a great teacher. But actually coming to think of it, there’s nothing to necessarily suggest this about him in canon. Very interesting topic to discuss! Despite the controversial(?) adultery, Water Under the Bridge is one of the most incredible fanfics out there. The depth of M & G’s emotions are just... I can’t even describe. Kudos to you, warmwoollenmittens . I probably go back and read that one more than any other story. |
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Post by warmwoollenmittens on Jul 7, 2020 12:31:22 GMT
I do love exploring the idea of Maria being his mistress but somehow can’t bring myself to write about it other than in a “fantasy” type thing that the already engaged/married M&G explore together. Though I did cover it a bit in “water under the bridge”. I think I mostly struggle to keep it in character when they’re having an affair but there are some fab fics where this is covered really well and it’s super believable even while they remain in character. When I wrote What is it You Can’t Face, I really struggled with writing Georg as an unlegendary lover because it somehow seems so engrained in his character to be a rake and a great teacher. But actually coming to think of it, there’s nothing to necessarily suggest this about him in canon. Very interesting topic to discuss! Despite the controversial(?) adultery, Water Under the Bridge is one of the most incredible fanfics out there. The depth of M & G’s emotions are just... I can’t even describe. Kudos to you, warmwoollenmittens . I probably go back and read that one more than any other story. Thank you You’re too kind! That’s why I love the TSOM forum and fanfic, everyone’s so supportive of each other’s work. I’ve seen other fanfic genres where the reviews can be brutal! But yes if anyone is brave enough to try an unrakey Georg fic I’d be buzzing to read it! |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 15, 2020 13:58:56 GMT
If we are talking about him being un-rakey earlier in life, his career could be climbing the ranks in the Navy. He is focused on proving himself (to society? to his family?) by becoming a captain. He then marries Agathe and is a loyal husband, having had no time before or desire after to pursue other women. He is too distraught after her death to consider being with another woman, then decides on Elsa as a business type arrangement. Until Maria comes along and he realizes he can love again. Or at least this is how it could happen in my head. As far as a career after the Navy. Hmmm. I have read some stories that have him reviewing submarine blueprints for countries fighting Germany. He would have amazing depth of knowledge to do this. What was he doing before the threat of war though? And is this enough to occupy him full time? Maybe this is why he is leaving for Vienna so often, he has nothing to do but think about his dead wife? I like the managing the family fortune idea. Some people do make this their full time job. |
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 16, 2020 22:53:54 GMT
It would be likely he would be involved in some defense advisory role, having done so well in the now-defunct navy: procurement, tactics etc.
Alternatively, if not in such a role then he might be involved in running any land surrounding the house; traditionally large houses such as the villa had large estates to support them, with farmland, woodland etc to provide an income to run the house and fund the family. Ensuring all this was managed well was a full time job. However, his clothes somehow tell me that his mind still has a military leaning (rather than rustic), so I'd go for the first option. It also explains why the Nazis bagged him so soon for their navy, if he was still in a military role of some sorts (I often used to wonder why they wanted someone who had been out of work for some years, but maybe this is why).
One other thought about rakey or non-rakey Georg: if he is about 42 (?) in the film and Liesl is nearly 17, then he would have been about 25 when she was born. Assuming she was conceived perhaps 6 months into his marriage to Agathe, then he would have been about 23 when he was married (and if problems like previous miscarriages, infertility etc, this could have been younger). So he didn't have all that much time to be a rake, assuming he met Agathe perhaps 2 years before his marriage to her...only until he was 21...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 21, 2020 15:20:17 GMT
Why do you think he was 42? Was this how old CP was when he played this part? For some reason, I have it in my brain that Georg was 47. I'm not sure why though. Maybe the real Georg was 47 when he met Maria? or maybe I just read that in a fanfic and decided that it was true? If this were the case, he would have had more time for rakey behavior.
I like your theory on running the estate occupying a lot of his time.
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