|
Post by lemacd on Nov 27, 2013 19:35:28 GMT
this always made me say, "hmmmm."
during the opening scenes of the party, you see lots of guests milling around upstairs. did anyone else find it kinda strange? not overly so, i mean, perhaps the bathrooms were upstairs and well... even rich pretty people have to answer the call, but... anyway. i saw it again today and remembered i wanted to bring it up to see what others think.
|
|
|
Post by lisab1991 on Nov 27, 2013 19:44:28 GMT
I agree! I always wondered what that was about as well. At first I thought that maybe, they were coming from the guest rooms, because the party'll most likely not be over before midnight.. Still the villa doesn't seem large enough to accomodate that many people..
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Nov 27, 2013 22:48:36 GMT
Perhaps an unoccupied guest/servant room was being used as a cloak room? Looking at art in the 'gallery'? Maybe Georg hid the bar up there, to try and get Max off the scent.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Nov 27, 2013 22:51:10 GMT
My very favorite kind of overthinking post, thank you lemacd. When people come to my house, we say, "go upstairs and throw your coat on the bed," because our closet only holds, like, four coats. Wait, that doesn't really help. In 19th century books, the ladies always have a room they can retire to to fix a torn hem, and so on. Maybe that's upstairs?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Nov 28, 2013 0:24:38 GMT
It would have been normal for the house to be full with guests from far away, staying a few days either side of the ball; other friends nearby would have expected to host 'house parties' for the Captain at their own houses for the weekend, the guests arriving together and returning to their respective houses at the end of the night. So some of those you see would probably be guests staying;looking at the floor plans of the upstairs (-heh,heh,-) it struck me there would actually be quite a few bedrooms (despite having 7 children) -you only have to look at the size of the ballroom to think how many bedrooms you could fit above it. I think there is another floor above that too, with large windows, which would have taken guests, then the top floor with little windows, probably for the staff.
I would also like to think that the balcony and ante-room were thrown open to people to view the lake, so some may have been returning from there. The (With)Drawing Room for the ladies would have been downstairs, and was usually used after dinner (supper), rather than at a ball, but instead they would probably have had the use of a bedroom or suchlike... Oh, dear, this overthinking is infectious...
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Nov 28, 2013 0:36:39 GMT
Yes, but such a yummy @indigoblue topic.
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Nov 28, 2013 0:37:38 GMT
thank you, indigo! let me ask you, have you already thought about these things or just come up with such a thorough answer othe top of your head. because that was a great answer and very helpful.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 1, 2013 23:18:24 GMT
Well, let's just say that perhaps it is part of my culture, both living in England where, in some circles, many of these traditions also persist in some shape or form, and also through the fact that (as a friend pointed out to me), the man I married has some remarkable similarities to the Captain! So the military/understated and sometimes stylish way of going about things, and the traditions associated with it are quite familiar to me, which may explain how I know a little about the background in the von Trapp household, or, for example, how I know about the tendency to avoid talking about anything personal through the use of euphemisms (more through his parents than him, thank goodness!). So ask away, I'll try to contribute what I can!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2021 22:57:10 GMT
I know there is a whole somewhat recent discussion somewhere on party guests, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone know where it is?
My party guest comment is that when we see people walking on the upper landing, the men are on one side and the women on the other. I wonder if this is just coincidence or if it would have been proper to put the men and women on different sides of the house for getting ready for the party.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Apr 28, 2021 23:12:56 GMT
Hmm; curious!
I suppose if they were single guests who had been invited to stay they would be segregated, but it seems unlikely they would have so many. Or if the loos were upstairs they would be on different sides - again, unlikely to have so many emerging from there!
I'll have a look for the party thread; I remember it was in an unexpected place.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 27, 2022 22:28:18 GMT
This is a completely random question, and not really about the guests, but I didn't know where to put this.
Is the party orchestra conductor also part of the orchestra? Why does he have a violin while he is conducting?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Jan 29, 2022 0:51:58 GMT
I can only think that he plays a solo or takes the role of first violin at some stage; it is a small orchestra, so maybe they all need to have dual roles.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Jan 29, 2022 12:53:48 GMT
I can only think that he plays a solo or takes the role of first violin at some stage; it is a small orchestra, so maybe they all need to have dual roles. Now if you see the conductor also serving the tables at dinner, I’d start to wonder. Doesn’t seem like Elsa’s style to hire a discount all-purpose party company.
|
|
laurynvi
Full Member
I ask you to stay.
Posts: 212
|
Post by laurynvi on Feb 1, 2022 3:03:54 GMT
It's plausible! My mother's favourite orchestra is conducted and led by a violinist - "Andre Rieu and the Johannes Strauss Orchestra", where the conductor is also the star performer.
|
|
|
Post by missisa on Feb 8, 2022 10:20:26 GMT
while re-watching the scene I clearly see what you say: men on one side, women on the other; and both seem to come from a room at the back of the stairs, so my vote is that they enabled a toilet for each sex in each wing of the house, and that's all. And by the way you can see that some lean over the banisters like if they were gossiping, it seems like an absolutely perfect atmosphere of a party to me.
Then I think it is remarkable to highlight the presentation of Her Zeller and with what subtlety looks we already notice the misgivings of the Captain and how he sees him from afar while Her Zeller despises the flag -perhaps it is not noticeable at first but the editing here is beautiful, there are happening many things in the background much more important than what the eye can see (the reception).
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Feb 9, 2022 0:05:55 GMT
Yes, in a few seconds of film, you pick up all sorts of clues regarding things like how people relate to each other: social niceties, friendships, resentments and perhaps rivalries - very subtle!
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Feb 20, 2022 2:04:49 GMT
A different example of all that good stuff happening in the background, is a few minutes later when we can watch Georg make his way through the ballroom, in between the dancing couples, looking courteous and a little bored, until he reaches the doors out to the terrace and sees his children with Maria. Gloves off!!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Feb 28, 2022 22:33:55 GMT
How do you think the other guest would have reacted if Maria showed up for dinner at the party? Would it have been a scandal because "the help" was in attendance? Would it have been fine because they were all charmed by how well the children performed? Would it have been acceptable only after Max loudly proclaimed that he needed to talk business with her about the folk festival (so she had a work related reason to be there)? What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Mar 4, 2022 12:26:21 GMT
I'm afraid I think there would definitely have been some disapproval, simply because she wasn't of the same class. Pre-war, that accounted for a lot, and there was a marked stratification of people in society, more in Europe than, say, the US. That is why you can see some consternation on the faces of some people who were party to Max and Georg's conversation in the hall.
Post-war still not much better, but things had been so stirred up, matters like that were improving slowly.
It struck me that whilst she might attend dinner, unless she were placed next to Max or Georg, she might find it difficult to find a subject for conversation with other guests - other than the kids' singing - because their lives were very different, of which others would have been very aware. I'm sure that was something Maria considered when making up her mind.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 7, 2022 20:38:25 GMT
Max probably would have known that she wouldn't have common ground to talk about with the party guests, and would hopefully have stuck with her for the whole party so that she didn't feel so out of place. Though, I could see her complimenting people and winning some of them over with her non threatening innocence before the night was over.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Mar 8, 2022 0:24:15 GMT
I don't know about prewar Europe, but in Victorian or Regency novels, governesses were kind of in between in status. Definitely, like you say, not one of the elite, but more educated and genteel than the servants. My extensive perusal of romance fiction (as opposed to actual knowing something about the subject) suggests that sometimes they would be pressed into service as dinner guests, but it usually awkward as is being suggested here.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 19, 2022 18:36:17 GMT
Why does everyone have gloves on? Is it just a fashion of the time? Is it inappropriate to actually be touching someone's skin while dancing so you wear gloves to a party? Elsa's gloves appear to fold back so that the male guests can kiss her hand in the receiving line. She then has them back on normally for the rest of the party. Max appears to be holding Maria's arm with his gloves during the invite to dinner scene. I'm not sure if that is just the hand he happened to have them in, or if it is again the inappropriate skin touching thing. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Jul 24, 2022 0:01:13 GMT
It was definitely the custom of the time (and had been for centuries in Europe amongst upper sections of society). By the beginning of the 20th century, wearing smart gloves was both a marker that you didn't do manual work, and wearing (pristine) white gloves displayed that you didn't dirty your hands in any way, even doing housework, which was left to the servants.
It's interesting that Maria doesn't wear them at any point. (Do I remember Liesl wearing them at one point before the Laendler?)
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Jul 24, 2022 23:45:41 GMT
as girls we wore little white gloves on special occasions in the early 1960s.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 31, 2022 21:30:36 GMT
Liesl, Marta, and Gretl have white gloves on at the wedding. You are right, we never see Maria with gloves on.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 17, 2022 22:41:17 GMT
Do we ever see Georg with a drink in his hand at the party? He drinks in many other scenes, but I don't think this one. Maybe he feels comfortable soaking himself in champagne at Elsa's Vienna parties, but needs to keep his wits about him when the party is at his house? Especially with the likes of Zeller there?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Nov 19, 2022 18:02:41 GMT
That's interesting, I don't think we do, and it adds to the feeling that he is not at ease: everyone else is relaxed with a glass, but he is sort of 'on guard' all the time. In the play, there was more of an emphasis on how he didn't know who his true friends were, because so many people were Nazi sympathisers. This isn't so overt in the film, but it does give his role an edgy feel. Brilliant!
Is the only time Elsa drinks when she celebrates with Max?
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 28, 2022 20:35:19 GMT
Yes, and she hardly takes a sip before handing off her drink to go dance the Edelweiss Waltz with Georg. She probably felt like she needed to keep her wits about her too, trying to make a good impression on every important person in Salzburg. This was probably a stressful party for her, even before the Laendler debacle.
And it was definitely stressful for Georg with Nazis in his house. Many of the other men at the party have military pins on. Which makes sense, since this is who he would want to invite. I wonder how many of them were also being "recruited" by Zeller.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 2, 2022 22:43:51 GMT
Going back to the glove sort of thing, Maria frequently wears short sleeves (blue dress, Laendler dress, DoReMi, her postulant's dress etc) - compare her to Elsa's clothes which are all long-sleeved unless she is wearing her ballgown, when she wears long gloves.
Why do you think this is?
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 14, 2022 19:39:14 GMT
Maybe short sleeves are seen as more casual, and Elsa was always too elegant to appear casual regardless of the situation? Or maybe it is to highlight how young (in age and in knowledge of the world) Maria is compared to Elsa?
|
|