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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 4:24:07 GMT
So I was just having a truly random thought, and I was thinking about Maria's clothes.
There are a lot of stories that talk about her not having an interest in clothes etc. but I was just wondering whether this was the case.
I mean the dress she wears from the Abbey to the vT villa is very ugly but I think she acknowledges this. She is just quite matter-of-fact when she says "the poor didn't want this one." I don't think that she meant that she doesn't care that it is ugly it is just that she can't do anything about it. Also she then says straight away that she would have made another dress but there wasn't any time.
so do we think maria cares about her fashion sense or not? later in the film her clothing choices seem to be better.
Just throwing open another topic to discuss. It's been too quiet around here.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 19, 2014 11:04:58 GMT
I think she has got sense of dress, but she has volountarily suppressed it for her life at the abbey UNTIL she meets You Know Who, and then she becomes acutely aware of, firstly, how frumpy she looks, and then how lovely she can look when she wears flattering things. She just has to look at those subtle changes in his face and body language to see the effect she is having...
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 19, 2014 14:59:57 GMT
Yes to what @indigoblue and @charleybec said. Expanding on what they both said, she also has the knowledge/sense that there are certain way of dressing for one's station/activities----hence, the playclothes. They can't play and be children because their uniforms will get dirty; she isn't dressed appropriately to be Max's dinner companion at the ball; and so on.
When Maria returns,she changes from the (perfectly acceptable) green sheath and puts on the blue dress for dinner because it is her way of showing Georg what he'll be missing now that he's engaged to Elsa. Elsa didn't make that comment about "that lovely little dress you had on, when he couldn't take his eyes off you" for nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 15:40:08 GMT
Yes, totally agree utility_singer about the appropriateness of uniforms/play clothes etc depending on what activities the children are doing. But re: putting on the blue dress when she returned from the Abbey, I'm not sure I quite agree with the idea that she put it on to show the Captain what he is missing out on now being with Elsa. It makes her sound a bit vindictive or something which I'm not sure is quite in character. Having said that... Why did she put that dress on at that time? (Was it the only thing clean and she needed to do laundry? Lol!) thoughts?
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 19, 2014 16:01:52 GMT
No, I don't mean she did it vindictively, or even consciously. But she DID go back intending to tell him of her feelings, and was blindsided.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 17:02:09 GMT
OK, I get your comment now utility.
So why wear the blue dress? (and I do remember your nice little story about that missing dinner scene).
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Post by sagaofjenny on Oct 19, 2014 18:58:06 GMT
I have the feeling that Maria really likes pretty clothes and hairstyles and things (I also have a headcanon that she had very long, pretty hair before entering the abbey and was upset about chopping it all off), but as indigoblue said, she tried to squash that in preparation for becoming a nun. I guess that, combined with the rather poor upbringing we all assume she had, could explain why the first dresses she makes for herself are more practical, but as time goes on and she's immersed in this new world, her clothes become more flattering. I don't think that transition was really intentional, but something subconscious. Also, the later dresses are made with fabrics that were clearly not given to her that first night, so you'd have to consider that, too; I know everyone has their own idea of where those came from.
As for putting the blue dress on when she returned, she took the green dress from the new postulant at Nonnberg. Maybe Maria felt more comfortable in one of her own creations (assuming, of course, she made the blue dress). I've also seen a lot of people refer to the green dress as a traveling dress, so maybe it wasn't appropriate to remain in it for dinner? My idea of "traveling clothes" is sweatpants and a hoodie, so I'm not sure if this is accurate.
If any of this doesn't make sense, forgive me. I think I'm still slightly under the effects of Nyquil. >.>
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 19, 2014 21:45:38 GMT
I think the reason she put the blue dress on again was for a sort of 'reminiscence of how it was'.
She arrived back at the villa full of anticipation, but her hopes were shattered when she heard of the engagement. Feeling so devastated, she may have put on the blue dress to take her back to those times when she felt deliriously happy and attractive, to give her a sort of security when all her plans were in ruins, and - worse - she would have to watch Georg and Elsa all lovey-dovey together on their engagement. It was the only remnant of those earlier times she had left.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Nov 1, 2014 1:42:41 GMT
Just looking through some other threads (specifically the one that mentioned how Maria's first nightgown had a tiny 'M' on it. Gets me wondering if she would have those on any others; either ones she got later or already had. Thoughts?
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Post by cass on Nov 14, 2014 3:46:55 GMT
As to why Maria wears the chiffon at dinner before the gazebo scene, to my mind, it's a combination of reasons. In my head, I imagine her being pretty miserable all day. With the Baroness and Max there, she needs to wear something nice at dinner, and the chiffon is basically her only option. She probably fully realizes the irony, but is too sad to care, so it also functions as a sort of "last hurrah" as far as possibly wanting to feel pretty and being able to act on it.
I also am in the camp that disagrees entirely with Maria having terrible fashion sense -- if she can make the dresses she made with the material she was given and also tastefully and practically expand her wardrobe as she needed, then she's got it together. I also prefer to believe that she had a heavy hand in the creation of her wedding gown and trousseau.
Somehow it seems the whole nun thing breeds wild misconceptions about how she is as a person in her tastes, behaviour, and self-awareness. I can't see why, as she was no model postulant, after all.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 14, 2014 6:28:06 GMT
Yeah, I've always disliked the idea that nuns are all ridiculously out of touch with the world. I mean, that was probably a little more true in the 1930s than today, but I've known a few nuns in my time and they were all pretty cool people. And even in the case of "stereotypical nuns," they're people and did have secular lives before taking those solemn vows.
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Post by cass on Nov 14, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
My grandmother attended a school run by Catholic nuns when she was in grade school (this would have been the 1950s and into the 1960s), as well as a Jesuit college for her nursing degree, and some of the stories she tells -- it's hilarious. There are some real firecrackers in the mix, and many of them are devoted academics, not at all solemn and repressed and clueless. Traditionally, nuns find their "thing" and use it as a vessel to serve God, whether it's teaching, midwifery, nursing, aiding the poor, being more involved with the religious order, etc.
All in all, nuns tend to be more in touch with everyday humanity than most people. So color me head-scratching at the assumption that a conscious choice to don a veil and drab colors and devote hours of the day to prayer and reflection automatically says that they don't know how to function in the real world and are naive. Au contraire!
That said, can I just reiterate how much I love the brown Do Re Mi dress that Maria's wearing on the mountaintop? It flatters her figure so well and though I am well aware that Julie could make a potato sack look a million bucks, it takes a special snowflake to make that dress look awesome.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 14, 2014 19:41:39 GMT
:O Finally someone appreciates that dress as much as I do! It's really one of my favorites from TSOM. Plus - the skirt twirls. Who doesn't love twirly skirts???
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Post by cass on Nov 14, 2014 20:01:46 GMT
sagaofjenny, I went to the trouble to screencap it and put it in the throng of "sexy Julie" pictures once upon a time in another forum. That's how convicted I am about that dress. Yup. Still feeling it.
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Post by lemacd on Nov 14, 2014 20:53:03 GMT
Maybe I dreamed this or maybe I actually saw it online. Or maybe who cares if I'm making it up or not but I seem to recall an auction with lots of SOM costumes and the brown dress was the most valued or went for the highest price.
I'd bother to research it but... I'm not going to. Because. Writing and stuff.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 14, 2014 21:12:44 GMT
That sounds about right, lemacd. Of course, I'd probably sell my soul for anything Julie has ever worn. And I know you obviously don't go around wearing million-dollar auctioned costumes, but I'd totally try them all on too.
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Post by cass on Nov 14, 2014 21:38:51 GMT
If I had to take a guess as to why... it is so incredibly well-made and is probably the most durable of the lot. Though the chiffon is my absolute favourite, I don't know that I would be keen on owning it as it is now so old and the fabric is delicate to begin with.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 14, 2014 22:11:38 GMT
What I find really sad is that the wedding dress was damaged. Breaks my heart. I mean, it would still be amazing to own, but disappointing too. I can't play wedding dress-up in a water-damaged gown!
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Post by cass on Nov 14, 2014 23:39:09 GMT
D8 noooo, that wedding dress is a classic for the ages! I'm not sure what's worse, the original film with all the extra stuff on it getting damaged or this gown.
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Post by lemacd on Nov 15, 2014 2:47:58 GMT
If I was to guess why the brown dress fetched a higher price it would have to do with it's connection to the 'do re mi' song.
I don't want to start a debate on the most iconic song but I think 'do re mi' is considered high on the list if not on the top. When it comes to movie memorabilia that sort of thing is usually what helps determine value.
Condition of the item does too so it is a shame about the wedding dress but die hard fans want the item in any condition. For them it isn't an investment so much.
Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about? I don't. Not really. But I hear things...
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 15, 2014 3:28:20 GMT
No, I think you're right. I'm almost certain most... eh, non-fanatic people think of either the mountaintop twirl or Do Re Mi when they think of TSOM.
As for die-hard fans, it is most certainly not an investment. If I ever got my hands on a bit of memorabilia I would never dream of reselling it. It wouldn't even have to be a dress. It could be Frau Schmidt's apron for all I care.
Do I sound crazy yet?
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Post by cass on Nov 15, 2014 3:41:58 GMT
Oh, I don't doubt that all of those things go into determining value. I kind of just assumed that anyway, since she wears at least three or four different outfits through the entire Do Re Mi sequence, yet the brown one is the favourite. And as for most iconic song, it's more that Do Re Mi is a really iconic, classic-mould kind of "chase scene." I use that term loosely, but it fits since the sequence as a whole is its greatest asset, encapsulating the spirit of the film, and the moment that starts it all is Maria sitting on a boulder with a guitar in hand, wearing that wonderfully-cut dirndl looking just dandy. It's so much the center of the film that this is the sequence that Bob Wise chose to have cut to cheer up the cast after coming back depressed from TSOM on Broadway! The iconic song is likely to be "The Sound of Music," far and away. But I doubt much of anyone gets excited over a black dress and apron.
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Post by lemacd on Nov 15, 2014 4:43:07 GMT
Also, Julie was dripping wet in that dress. Rawr.
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Post by cass on Nov 15, 2014 4:50:55 GMT
Actually, no, the dress she's wearing when the boat capsizes is the one she's wearing with the feather hat on the benches in Salzburg.
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Post by lemacd on Nov 15, 2014 5:20:52 GMT
Damn. You're right.
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Post by cass on Nov 15, 2014 5:59:15 GMT
I was just observing these photos again. Maybe it's because I'm sleep deprived, but her one eye in that second one is doing a total "he's insane" twitch and I find it hilarious.
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Post by sagaofjenny on Nov 15, 2014 7:04:56 GMT
Ohhh, I love that dress too! And she looks fantastic in it before and after going for a swim. In fact, this is probably my one of my favorite photos of her ever: Regarding that "eye twitch," cass, she looks one step away from making the face of complete side-eye disdain in my avatar. Hilarious.
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Post by utility_singer on Nov 15, 2014 12:23:52 GMT
Lovely discussion, ladies. As for the auction of costumes, I'd have paid a mint for the festival suit our darling captain wore.
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Nov 16, 2014 2:00:59 GMT
I have a feeling you ladies would pay a mint for anything our leading man wore
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Post by gothicbutterfly95 on Nov 16, 2014 2:01:17 GMT
Finally someone appreciates that dress as much as I do! It's really one of my favorites from TSOM. Plus - the skirt twirls. Who doesn't love twirly skirts??? I always loved this dress. Because I grew up with this film from my toddler years onwards, it wasn't until I was about fourteen I really got into the Maria/Georg love storyline. Before that it was all about how pretty Julie was in the wedding dress and how adorable she was playing with the children. So when I was little this would've been in my top three fave dresses. (Like you said, non-fanatics - like I was until I hit fourteen - would think of the opening or Do-Re-Mi when TSOM is mentioned.) As for the rowboat dress, that's the one the Barbie doll is packaged with; which always confused me, because as we said, for non-fanatics it mightn't be particularly memorable. But the doll's dress had flowers on the skirt and upon inspection of that picture I can see Julie's dress did too. I never thought that was the case before.
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