Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 23:45:25 GMT
Well of course well all know what Georg's views are RE: Nazis, but I have been thinking about this for the past week and just wondering everyone's opinions on how much of the outside political world he allowed the children to know.
i only mention this before when thinking about how dumb Liesl is in regards to Rolf. At the gazebo 16 going on 17 she seems totally clueless when Rolf is talking about how Georg's political views could get him into trouble and also the impending take over of Austria by Germany. Then after the Anschluss, Liesl is still clueless about Rolf joining the Nazi's. she says "Who's we?" when Rolf makes a reference to the him and the Nazi's knowing everything about everyone.
So my point is this: either Liesl is really just a clueless girl (and considering she liked Rolf, that may just be the case), or Georg has been totally shielding his children about the current political situation.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Feb 13, 2015 0:09:36 GMT
I think a bit of both, leaning heavily toward clueless. In the beginning she was blinded by first love (barf) but at the end, when he gives her the telegram for her father, I mean... nazi flags were everywhere. How could she not know who "we" meant??
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Feb 13, 2015 0:12:06 GMT
Here is my two cents:
I don't think she really knows much at all. First, it is summer---she would not be out at school or among peers where she would be hearing things or learning any current events. I can't imagine Georg would give her the newspaper to read. He still clearly thinks of her as a child; even if he didn't, I feel like he would think it is his responsibility to shield her from as much of the unpleasantness as possible. The wireless would be something that, even if she did get to listen, her father would have control over. Before Maria, she'd have had little or no time or opportunity to even be curious. She'd either be thinking up ways to get rid of yet another governess, or busy caring for the younger kids.
But,being 16, she's also willfully ignorant to some degree.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Feb 13, 2015 0:13:17 GMT
How INTERESTING!
Will have to think about this - but it springs to mind that Friedrich is also fairly clueless for a 14(?) yr old. Maybe it is because Georg really didn't have much to do with them, and the kids' only contact was through their governess of the time, who was always going to be very shortlived?
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Feb 13, 2015 1:21:34 GMT
Fanfic idea (up for grabs): what if one of the first eleven was a nazi? And she tried to indoctrinate the older children?
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Feb 13, 2015 2:11:10 GMT
I had that on my twelve governesses list. It's staying there though! Keep going! Give me ideas!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 2:26:07 GMT
I had that on my twelve governesses list. It's staying there though! Keep going! Give me ideas! Ooooo!!!! I'm so excited now!! (I have to live through other people's stories now I'm on a break from writing my own)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 2:35:50 GMT
Does anyone think Max knew about Georg's views on Austrian politics before Rolf delivered the telegram or was he surprised by them when Georg snapped at him?
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Feb 13, 2015 12:45:56 GMT
He knew. He flinched when G snapped because it was as if G suddenly didn't know HIM. "Yo, G-dog! It's me! Maxmeister, the lovable sponge! You know I don't give a flying schnitzel about real life. Why get all up in mine just because your other friends do?" (From the original script)
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Feb 13, 2015 23:43:44 GMT
I think this is one of the reasons I think Georg and Max are either related and/or are childhood friends; their politics are so far apart they must have a very high tolerance of each other for other,longstanding reasons, otherwise I don't think Georg would allow Max to cross the threshold.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Feb 15, 2015 18:40:40 GMT
I think this is one of the reasons I think Georg and Max are either related and/or are childhood friends; their politics are so far apart they must have a very high tolerance of each other for other,longstanding reasons, otherwise I don't think Georg would allow Max to cross the threshold. agreed. I always have to pause at stories that have them having fought side by side in the war.
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Feb 15, 2015 21:05:14 GMT
I think this is one of the reasons I think Georg and Max are either related and/or are childhood friends; their politics are so far apart they must have a very high tolerance of each other for other,longstanding reasons, otherwise I don't think Georg would allow Max to cross the threshold. agreed. I always have to pause at stories that have them having fought side by side in the war. I think those stories might consider that Max was based on someone from The Story of the Trapp Family Singers... Can't recall his name or what he did but he lived on the estate and was a war acquaintance. I can't find my copy of the book at the moment or I'd try to be more accurate. Not saying he was based on that person but G's high tolerance of him does beg the question of why they are even friends. The more I try to think of a connection the less likely it seems that they would ever become friends naturally.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Feb 15, 2015 23:39:16 GMT
Do you mean Father Wasner (?)- he cultivated the von Trapps' musical talent. Seemed less mercurial than Max!
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Feb 16, 2015 0:08:31 GMT
I don't know that Max was based on Father Wasner as such. But he certainly represents the majority at the time, who felt 'going along to get along' would help Austria. Aside from being a very useful tool (not the Rolf variety) in dramatizing story, that is. Max the closeted gay Jew who sticks his neck out long enough to help them get out is much more interesting. "Make sure it doesn't happen to you" turns into Max making sure it doesn't happen to Georg and the family.
|
|
|
Post by lemacd on Feb 16, 2015 0:32:02 GMT
No I don't mean Fr Wasner. He was a gardener or something, the man I'm thinking about.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Feb 16, 2015 0:40:50 GMT
I vaguely remember that, now that you mention it. I will have to dig out her book and look.
|
|
|
Post by augiesannie on Feb 16, 2015 2:02:08 GMT
I can understand why they went with a Max-like character instead of a priest! (I don't remember the gardener - for some reason it sounds racy!) Remember the children's' reaction to the news about Uncle Max coming to visit - so it seems more likely to have been a family connection than a true friendship between the two men.
|
|
|
Post by utility_singer on Feb 16, 2015 4:33:03 GMT
I can understand why they went with a Max-like character instead of a priest! (I don't remember the gardener - for some reason it sounds racy!) Remember the children's' reaction to the news about Uncle Max coming to visit - so it seems more likely to have been a family connection than a true friendship between the two men. I know I went with cousin once......childhood friend another.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 19, 2019 15:16:38 GMT
I’m not sure this belongs in this thread, but I’m going to go with it because it’s about politics of the time.
Did Georg approve the guest list for the party or was this all Elsa’s (the perfect hostess) doing? When I was a kid I thought that people must have just announced that they were having a party and then whoever wanted to show up did, since I could think of no other reason why Zeller would be invited. I now think Elsa is trying to get along with everyone in the elite circle, which includes the powerful Nazis. But Georg surely didn’t know about this prior or it would have been a fight right?
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 20, 2019 0:06:47 GMT
I'm not sure that Elsa would have known that many people in the Salzburg area, as it is at the opposite end of the country compared to Vienna, and Georg makes a point about her Vienna friends. So although she may have known a few people, I think they must have been mostly his friends.
Actually, I am surprised that so many of the guests are much older that G&E (especially as I think he is younger than E). This makes me think that many guests have been asked because they are people of status, large house/castle owners etc, rather than Georg's 'drinking friends', so to speak. It might also explain Zeller being invited, as a person of political importance in the area, rather than a person whom they desired to have. Indeed, Georg's clear hostility is apparent in his spat with him after the Laendler.
In fact, there aren't that many people at the party who look similar in age/type to Georg, which has always puzzled me - doesn't he have proper friends? Is this why he has to resort to 'the standard' nobs with big schlosses?!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 20, 2019 15:25:54 GMT
In fact, there aren't that many people at the party who look similar in age/type to Georg, which has always puzzled me - doesn't he have proper friends? Is this why he has to resort to 'the standard' nobs with big schlosses?! So, I had to look up the definition of both "nob" and "schlosses", and this sentence turned out to be very different than what I originally thought you were saying. LOL. On to the party. Do you think that some of Elsa’s friends traveled from Vienna to check out her (soon to be) country home? I agree that most of the guests are likely local aristocrats that it would only be polite to include on the guest list of a high society party. I still think the captain would veto any Nazis though, even if that would be considered rude because of their social standing. His position on that is too firm. As to why there are no guest Georg’s age…hmm. I think he has no real friends except Max. I think he has alienated all of the people he and Agathe were close to socially because they would be something that reminds him of her. That wouldn’t really explain why those people wouldn’t be on the guest list for this party though, as they would likely be of similar social standing to Georg and would be included just as the older aristocrats were. Maybe the film directors did this so no one looks remotely as hot as Georg and Elsa??
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Dec 21, 2019 0:23:02 GMT
Haha! Sorry, we English can be a little obtuse in our language...for those still puzzled, a nob in a schloss is an important person in their big house/castle.
Elsa said to Georg after Edelweiss that she wanted a grand and glorious party 'to meet your friends and for them to meet me'. So it looks like she didn't have any of her friends from Vienna, and if he complied, Georg did invite his friends to the party. And I agree that it was odd that a Nazi was there. Maybe Zeller invited himself as the local Commandant to test out his reception with Georg? A lot of people in Austria were pro-Nazi at the time, so maybe it wasn't such an odd thing to do, if he thought Georg would be in favour. He soon found out!
The film director certainly got G&E looking hot! Good idea! There is only one particular man in uniform after the Laendler who looks like a proper pal of Georg, the rest look rather staid; perhaps the idea is to present good Salzburgers as being rather unfashionable, not people that Elsa would naturally mix with. In fact, perhaps this is one of the reasons why she decided life in Salzburg wasn't for her...as well as having the problem called Maria to deal with.
So maybe she was right (on the balcony) when she said to Georg he wasn't the right man for her - except it was because country life would be too boring for her (+ the Maria problem). It might also be that Georg lost contact with all his friends when he went into a deep depression after Agathe's death; if this was a few years, it would be possible that there were few that he knew to invite, so resorted to a standard list of local aristocrats.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 7, 2020 16:53:36 GMT
The film director certainly got G&E looking hot! Good idea! There is only one particular man in uniform after the Laendler who looks like a proper pal of Georg, the rest look rather staid; perhaps the idea is to present good Salzburgers as being rather unfashionable, not people that Elsa would naturally mix with. In fact, perhaps this is one of the reasons why she decided life in Salzburg wasn't for her...as well as having the problem called Maria to deal with. So maybe she was right (on the balcony) when she said to Georg he wasn't the right man for her - except it was because country life would be too boring for her (+ the Maria problem). It might also be that Georg lost contact with all his friends when he went into a deep depression after Agathe's death; if this was a few years, it would be possible that there were few that he knew to invite, so resorted to a standard list of local aristocrats. I love this indigoblue! I've never thought about it before, but this party does present Salzburg as a staid crowd. Quite different perhaps than the glittering salons of Vienna. She probably could have dealt with the boring country life for short stays (I do like it here Georg. It's so lovely and peaceful.), but I suspect that she would want to spend most of their time in Vienna. Then in comes Maria and his new found devotion to his children and the obstacles are too many.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Jan 8, 2020 0:43:12 GMT
From memory, the bunch who are dancing look quite fun, but the rest look well past their dancing days, and a different generation to Georg and Elsa. Must have been a deliberate plan.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 25, 2020 17:44:25 GMT
When they return from the honeymoon and Georg has just yelled at Max about the Anschluss "Grateful?! Sometimes I don't believe I know you." Maria is in the background and it looks like she is getting ready to say something. What do you think she would have said to diffuse this situation if Liesl hadn't started talking about remembering the telegram? Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 20, 2020 18:14:41 GMT
I wonder why Georg does not have an Austrian flag flying outside his house. He has one hanging in the foyer during the party of course, but that is the only time we see it. I would just think he would want anyone driving past his home to know that he did not support the Nazis and would have the biggest Austrian flag he could find flying.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Aug 20, 2020 22:34:24 GMT
Well, I am just wondering who put up the Nazi flag that he angrily pulled down when he arrived home with Maria? Do you think Franz or Max put it up?
It wouldn't have been safe after the Anschluss to fly the Austrian flag, but to actively put up the Nazi flag was going to be very provocative to Georg.
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 20, 2020 22:59:05 GMT
I always assumed that Zeller put it up, based only on his comment the Georg's was the only house not flying the flag since the Anschluss, but that they had remedied that. Though, I supposed "we" have remedied could easily have meant, we told Franz to do it, not that they did it themselves. I don't think Max would do it, even if he was instructed to. He'd come up with some excuse, knowing how important it was to Georg.
|
|
|
Post by indigoblue on Aug 21, 2020 22:29:20 GMT
On the subject of politics and patriotism, I read a dissertation once on political thought after the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1916. Amongst many things it discussed, it said that in the 1920s and 30s there were many people who regretted the passing of the Empire and the old Austrian ways associated with it; these people were most commonly to be found in rural areas, such as landowners, and those with a military past. The men often wore 'trachten', or country suits with a military cut....familiar, anyone?!
|
|
|
Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 25, 2020 19:48:54 GMT
That is Georg to a T!
|
|