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Post by lemacd on Oct 17, 2013 1:10:10 GMT
what DOES grass taste like? a) grass b) blue strawberries c) chicken. don't vote if you're not going to defend it in the comment section below.
joking. what haven't we talked about yet?
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 17, 2013 1:39:29 GMT
like we can't talk about something twice? we've talked ten times about when G first felt something for M and I'm not tired of it yet. But we can think of something new, I'm sure.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 17, 2013 2:50:16 GMT
the next question (unless there is a definitive answer... then someone just tell me): how long was maria gone when she ran away?
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 17, 2013 3:01:35 GMT
SO so funny you asked that because I had to make a timeline to prove to myself that this new story could work within a summer (I was starting to be afraid that it was going to set off a debate like whether the world could be created in seven days, could all that have happened in three months?) I do have an opinion, which I'll keep to myself for now, because, do you want to make a poll? It's easy, you know.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 17, 2013 3:07:33 GMT
i'll give it a whirl... probably in the observation section, though. and maybe tomorrow so i can think how it should be presented.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 25, 2013 14:06:02 GMT
If they did, who took the initiative? lol
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 25, 2013 14:17:27 GMT
I always give the obvious answers in this forum, and then you guys come along with intriguing, creative, well-reasoned, beautifully expressed different opinions. So I guess it's my job to go first: I think she did. I mean, maybe in a slightly indirect way, I'm not saying she jumped him, but she might have encouraged it. She could have extended what began as a a polite kiss. Or stuckthisclose to him. Or even brought it up, you know, we're both adults, it would be OK with me if, etc. And I think he probably was straightforward about it - not sure where we are, wouldn't want either of us to get entangled, etc. But - he's a man, come on. I will say that if my not-popular theory -- that they did the deed only after M ran away -- were true, then I could see him taking the initiative, trying desparately to put his relationship with E back on track. But even then, E could have started it, to seal the deal. Also - this is a good place to re-state something someone said above that I loved - that in a way, this only made it worse for E, even if she intended otherwise, because I think it would have made her see that he's never really going to be entirely hers.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 25, 2013 15:59:22 GMT
i agree with you... if it happened in vienna, they were on her turf and she'd be emboldened to give the signal, whatever that was in the 1930s. a pouty 'my bed is so big, i get lonely'? maybe 'darling, can you come help me with this darn zipper?'? 'georg, you seem to be an expert... do you think my bedroom needs new drapes?'
i'm kidding. or am i?
if, however, like you suppose, that they surrendered after maria ran away... yeah, he probably initiated. but she was probably very glad to oblige. especially if she still felt he was slipping away from her. i always liked that not-popular theory of yours. especially if in your mind it was a sudden decision, like during dinner he realizes he can't bring himself to go home and that there is an alternative that would probably make them both very happy (and possibly full of regret in the morning).
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 25, 2013 17:45:41 GMT
yes. I can't really take credit for thinking it through this much, but I think I said that they went out to dinner and ended up spending the night together. Definitely can see his mind racing during dinner. Maybe he is thinking obsessively about Maria, I'm never sure about that, and wants to blot out the memories, so he drinks too much or tries to distract himself with, ah, pleasure. I wrote in the story that he did it because he was trying to talk himself into loving Elsa -- if he goes through the motions, so to speak, maybe his heart will follow.
we don't tend to think of smoking this way anymore, but I can remember when there was a certain eroticism to having someone light your cigarette. So maybe she lured him that way, somehow. Yuck. There's probably a whole other thread to be had on smoking, though, so I won't say anymore than that.
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 25, 2013 18:36:17 GMT
Georg doesn't sleep with Elsa, Johnnie Walker does? lol
I still don't think the did/do; I do think they get close, then he has an attack of conscience and doesn't go through with it. THAT would certainly make Elsa insecure.
Aaaaaaaand now you might be getting a clue as to the direction my story may be going......
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 25, 2013 20:52:59 GMT
this is what is SO great about you guys, and about talking this stuff over - there are so many directions to go in and they are ALL good.
I am remembering that one reason I did it the way I did in my story, was that I needed Maria to get a little tougher and thick-skinned, and I thought learning that he'd slept with Elsa - after all, she knows he's not a virgin in any event - would probably serve the purpose well. The past may not be perfect, but she realizes that it's their future together that really matters. She needs to let go of previous heartbreak.
PS don't you mean "Johannes" Walker?
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 28, 2013 1:51:06 GMT
I think the seven kids were Maria's first clue about Georg's purity ;-)
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Post by lemacd on Oct 28, 2013 1:59:56 GMT
oh, i thought that told her that he knew what he was doing...
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2013 12:57:09 GMT
Duh. She's not THAT clueless! She knows where the seven children came from. But it's one thing to know that the man you are crushing on had seven children in wedlock with a wife he adored. It's another to know that he slept with a woman whom you are starting to see isn't always very nice (yes, I like Elsa too, but one can't blame M for being a little put off by her). Remember that I didn't have E&G together until after the Laendler.
But I am also very intrigued by the direction utility is going.
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Post by lemacd on Oct 28, 2013 13:48:44 GMT
um, i don't disagree with you.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2013 14:11:49 GMT
wow. what a nice feeling! Most of the time in this community, people come up with MUCH better explanations and insights than I ever could!
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 28, 2013 23:18:11 GMT
Maybe Elsa is the protagonist, but the fact that he always finds some excuse not to (perhaps at the last moment), becomes the source of friction between them; secretively she becomes annoyed and suspicious of the reason why he always declines her, as instinctively she feels - ahem, he must be well-practised, and hmm... it's been a long time...
And then, as so often happens, that becomes the bone of contention between them.
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Post by augiesannie on Oct 28, 2013 23:57:06 GMT
love that. perhaps utility will go in this directon but if not it would make a mighty fine story for someone else to take on. for inspiration, one could replay G's "heh, heh" chuckle by the lake after she says, "....searching just like you."
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Post by utility_singer on Oct 29, 2013 0:33:16 GMT
You'll just have to wait and see........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 11:58:12 GMT
Ok, I'm just re-reading topics that were discussed before I joined (and I feel totally annoyed that I missed out on some of the most awesome discussions) so hope no one minds me revisiting them now.
Oooo, so many ideas about this one. I think as I was reading that I started thinking one way, then read some of the awesomeness then started thinking another way, then read more awesomeness then started thinking yet another way (confused yet? I think I am!)
Anyway, I've answered the poll "it's complicated". I think I've come to the conclusion that they did have a &'thing' in Vienna. I mean, the man visits for a month at a time, with no kids around and we think there is no hanky panky? (Not that I want to put a visual on that one - ewww). But then I think it stops once they get to the villa (I mean Max around - apparent chaperone and I can imagine Georg saying to Elsa, not with the kids around).
Then of course there is Maria. Gorgeous young thing (probably not what Elsa expected when hearing about a nun for a governess - she probably would have expected sister berthe), then no fun after dark for Elsa, then M & G playing hot eye gazing games, no wonder Elsa gets jealous...
I can imagine once Elsa gets Maria out of the way at the party, a devastated and confused captain (whether HE realises it or not - that's another topic), a few drinks later... Well, put 2 and 2 together (including the mathematical explanation utility) and well you get.... ( another bad visual experience).
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 12:52:45 GMT
Please, bring all the old topics back up! Good points you've made.
But yeah--the idea of G & E getting, um, together in the biblical sense makes my brain seize. Just so wrong. Or at least so not right.
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 29, 2014 13:31:32 GMT
DEFINITELY revisit the topics, @charleybec. Some of us have been here for an awfully long time.
I don't like the idea of E&G sneaking around and doing it in the villa during her visit, but I think they .... did. Although I can't remember anymore how I voted.
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Post by lemacd on Jan 29, 2014 13:50:44 GMT
yes, yes, revive anything and everything! the only part i don't like is rereading how sarcastically annoying i was then. y'all are still my friends so... thanks.
i like the things you said. i agree, i just can't fathom that two adults who are not really in love... i mean, she asks, "what would you call me?" and number five on the list is "the perfect hostess". i'm sure that was some kind of compliment in 1930s europe, but... whatever. two adults spending that much time together without a real emotional connection? friends w/ benefits. sorry, utility. i do like the idea that he has a twinge of conscience but maybe after he's met maria. before then, he was still rather... dead inside. but along comes this frustratingly intriguing young governess and suddenly he can't. i don't mean he can't...
i think i mean subconsciously he knows there is something better waiting for him somewhere. before he met maria, he thought that ship had sailed for him already.
i also agree that this takes place only in Vienna. and before he met maria. so really, before the movie even starts. we can hardly hold something against him that happened while we were in line buying popcorn?! lol
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 15:22:48 GMT
Some of us prefer to bury our heads in the flag.
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Post by lemacd on Jan 29, 2014 15:25:44 GMT
Some of us prefer to bury our heads in the flag. best. comeback. ever.
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 29, 2014 15:29:40 GMT
Why thank you Logically, what you all say makes sense. Maybe I'm just too much of a romantic (or too possessive of CP, take your pick) but I have trouble imagining him---after having such a profound relationship with Agathe---settling just for physical release. But, I'm not a guy, so.......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 17:21:46 GMT
You guys have again said so many great things but I'll have to come back in the morning to really think about what I want to say (I hate the time difference thing, too much awesomeness goes on while I'm asleep)
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 29, 2014 19:38:35 GMT
I love everything about this exchange. "I don't mean he "CAN'T!" hee hee. Good, because it's unthinkable. "Something that happened while we are in line for popcorn." And the flag comeback of course.
On a slightly more serious note - I hate to say, and I hope that I'm not offending anyone here, but I think there is also a gender (and generational) thing here.
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Post by lemacd on Jan 29, 2014 19:50:04 GMT
On a slightly more serious note - I hate to say, and I hope that I'm not offending anyone here, but I think there is also a gender (and generational) thing here. vive la difference!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2014 19:54:36 GMT
On a slightly more serious note - I hate to say, and I hope that I'm not offending anyone here, but I think there is also a gender (and generational) thing here. ?? I'm not sure I follow... I won't be offended but can you explain more?
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