Georg & Elsa: Yes or No?

my vote in NO WAY indicates how much personal time i have spent dreaming thinking about this...

as said in another thread, i think they did have a physical relationship.

point A: elsa seems incredibly insecure. i always thought it was rather sad that after she said she needed someone who needed her desperately she added 'or at least needs my money desperately'. it was a joke, but many a truth is spoken in jest, no? it just strikes me that she just doesn't think any man will love her just for her.

point B: elsa is manipulative, we all can see that in the way she deals with the problem called Maria (see what i did there? auggiesannie, that was for you). like a freakin' pro. if someone like Maria can come along and bring out the claws, we're talking serious issues. it would not be unreasonable to think she wouldn't apply some of her tactics on Georg. we have all known women like that, so insecure about their worth that they throw themselves at men to feel wanted. it's sad and tragic. not that i think the Captain was seduced by a simpering needy little mouse. oh, no. our girl is fiery. elsa would make him feel totally irresistible. i don't think it would have been very difficult to pull that part off.

point C: Georg is a man. and Elsa is a gorgeous, alluring and sexy woman with a killer wardrobe (except that hideous red number with the bow in the front. ew) and a 2 pack a day habit that turned her voice into audible sex. oh, if she gave him the come hither, hither he would go.

not that i've spent much time thinking about it...

um, well... not liesl and rolf. i can assure you. *shudder*

hmmm... i think she was deeply in love with him. i think she did everything to keep him because she was in love with him. why her "auf weidersehen, darling" was teary-eyed and not all "how dare you try and dump ME?!". and why in the end she pointed out his feelings for maria... she wanted him to be happy. yeah, she's a prideful woman, scandal, status, saving face and all that come into it. but i think if it was all about that, she wouldn't have left so graciously.

as for the Captain... he thought he loved her at one point. and it was enough to propose. there was something there. if not love, maybe physical attraction.

don't worry, i'm fully prepared to be in the minority on this one too. but you have to understand, i'm a card carrying member of the BFC (baroness fan club... membership is up to three, i think) and hope she got something out of this whole heartbreak.

Demaclean, I LOVE what you wrote. Lemacd, we will have to do a different poll on who loves whom, that's a different matter.
It sounds like you both think . . . yes - just see Elsa differently.
I should have put in this poll WHEN you thought it happened. Because (enough about me, let's talk about me), having read what you wrote, I am more attracted than ever to the idea that it might not have happened until relatively late in the story, or certainly not before Elsa's visit.

there has been a shift in the force... i can feel it. my powers... they are getting weaker... help me obi wan kenobi.

sigh. love you guys. i still agree with everything lemacd wrote. she's a genius and i would hate to cross her. she has a license to snark and is not afraid to use it.

LOL I can change my username here---I used it because that's what I am over at fanfiction. I've used utility_singer other places, so I can switch.
And thank you for the lovely compliments.

yes, i'm talking about myself in the third person. i needed a friend.

don't mind me.

i don't think you need to change your username. the confusion is my fault. i prefer people use their FF name.

I voted as well and don't dare to sneak away without leaving a word here :-)

I think they were just two mature adults, both beautiful and sexy, after a first marriage, intending to marry each other. So why not?
Even if in those times people were much more prudish about speaking openly about sex, they still did it. At least I think so.

Agreeing with those who say it just happened once or so.

Love you all here, you always make me smile :-)

the idea that it didn't happen until after elsa's visit totally taints my opinion of the captain. it's bad enough to toy with the poor woman with a marriage proposal he really doesn't mean. bad enough to use her to run away from all his problems (before and after he met maria, i might add). is there no mercy for this poor woman? if sleeping with her was all just part of using her, he's a jerk. a monumental jerk. but he isn't a jerk. and you can't make me hate him. so i'm sticking to my guns on this one.

giving this absolutely no thought at all, i think their physical relationship existed in vienna and hit a drought in salzburg. hence the jealousy, hence the daggers and snide 'is there anything you can't do?', hence the plotting, the manipulating, the scheming, hence the ugly side of elsa that makes us cheer when 'there isn't going to be a governess'.

she was bored! THAT'S why she really needed a harmonica.

no thought about it what.so.ever.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Ahem, sorry. This discussion is so great. I may have to change my vote to "it's complicated."
I definitely didn't think they were together in the villa during Elsa's visit either, not with children, servants, etc. Even for two such gorgeously sexy people, a buzzkill.
And I LOVE that drought idea.
Lemacd, I am with you - whatever one believes, it won't hold water if he had to have been a creep to do it.
It's just that . . .
1. if they were together in Vienna, I think she would seem less insecure than she does. But rereading what utility wrote above, maybe it only happened once or twice, so she's still unsure of herself (and him.) In fact, it could be worse. "I still don't really know where I stand with him, there's still something standing between us, even though . . ."
2. Now I know why I created that little vignette where he finally gives in AFTER Maria runs away, and it happens kind of spur of the moment while they are away from the villa buzzkill. It works for me pretty well. And it could explain her teariness.

this country couldn't handle me on the supreme court. i'd get crap done.

one reason I stayed away from this topic for a while is that I thought some people might, indeed, not approve. (although I also think Tranq is right that it probably would have happened in real life - wait, this isn't real life?) I have my own standards, as I said elsewhere today, I can't quite bring my G to lay even a finger on M until the Big Reveal, which other authors do. It's nice that we can all bend a little bit since it's not real, and there are no small children to hear us (right?)

ah. well, daughters. I don't have one of those.

I do think it's funny that I even bothered to ask the question, since no one thinks the answer is "no," although the discussion was very interesting. VERY interesting.