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Post by eacampbell on May 6, 2016 2:52:57 GMT
...Just rushing off to go and have a look!... I am going to do the same thing, keeping utility_singer 's insights in mind!
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Post by clarinetjamie on May 6, 2016 6:09:38 GMT
I see it as a tender gesture where he his almost pleading with her to understand and I also think he is being very careful in that moment to gauge her thoughts and to make sure of what he suspects before he plunges in with her.
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Post by indigoblue on May 11, 2016 11:39:50 GMT
Well - almost a week later and I've finally had the pleasure of watching this scene (over and over...)
Although I thought I agreed with Utility and Clarinetjamie, when I actually watched the scene, Georg does seem to nod to confirm to Maria that he and the baroness are engaged and that is the right thing to do - not as deep a response as we are used to from Mr Plummer.
However, thinking about it, I think what we see is Georg reminding HIMSELF that he is engaged to the Baroness (after finding his heart in his mouth when talking to Maria on her return), and that, in the circumstances, it is the right thing to have done. He is trying to reassure himself, although as we know, he still desperately needs to know if she is going to disappear immediately. (thinking about that, it wouldn't be right for him to approach her in her room or even when alone in the house, given his engagement, so this is his first and last chance to find out what her plans are). Nice one, Mr P - so nuanced, as ever. I do think he undervalues his performance in this film; the more you look into it, the more you see.
Incidentally, watching Elsa's face in slow motion when he is asking Maria whether she will stay is worth an Oscar in itself - from the proud, guarding woman who has won Georg to the alarm she expresses when she realises he is still besotted over Maria, to the crestfallen look when she knows she won't be able to win him back, to realising she will have to make the best of a marriage with a husband who is not in love with her... a wonderful panoply of emotions on view!
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Post by utility_singer on May 11, 2016 20:24:25 GMT
It's not so much the nod as the look in his eyes that to me is speaking to Maria, but I like your view too.
As for the acting from all of them in that seemingly tiny little scene---it is brilliant, isn't it?
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Post by eacampbell on May 11, 2016 22:52:34 GMT
I see the points you all are making and, for me, I see a little bit of all of that in his nod and smile. I agree with utility_singer that he definitely intended to "have things out" with Maria right there - not only the will you stay part, but I also think he was going to be rather persistent as to getting her to reveal why she left. In my mind, at this point, he knows he can't deny what he's feeling for her any longer, but he wants to make sure she is on the same page before he plans his next move. I also agree with clarinetjamie that his look towards Maria is very tender. To me, since he can no longer deny that he loves her, that tenderness becomes harder to hide. Finally, indigoblue, I can see where it does look like he's reminding himself that he's engaged. It probably surprised him to remember there even was an Elsa when she joined them! For me, what I see is Georg being surprised that Maria has returned and also incredibly happy that she has (as evidenced by the way he returned her "Good evening." - There's definitely some amusement and happiness in his tone, as well as a bit of affection). I think that, when he approaches her, he's definitely looking to see why she left - I think he has his suspicions and he wants to see if he's right and she returns his feelings. He's so focused on her at this point that he forgets everything else, including the fact that he's engaged. I think he's startled when Elsa joins them, it shocks him back into the reality of the whole situation. I think, when Maria congratulates him, his nod is an automatic response (courtesy tells him he should accept her congratulations though I think it's probably one of the last things he's really thinking about). Even then, I think he's looking for Maria's reaction, anything to let him know that she loves him. Also, I think that he can't quite cover up his feelings at this point - hence the tenderness of that little smile. To me, he definitely knows he's made a mistake, he wants to talk to Maria and he needs to figure out his next move. That's why he follows after her for a step or two when he asks if she's going to stay. Her answer drives home to him that he's got some difficult decisions to make and they need to be made quickly. There is sooooooo much subtext in this brief little scene and it's so well-acted by everybody that I think I could find something different each time I watch it! Of course, that's one of the best things about the whole movie - it grows with you: you first fall in love with it as a child for the music and the happy sweetness of it, then find more and more reasons to keep watching it and loving it as you get older and catch on to the more subtle things the actors (especially CP) have added.
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Post by utility_singer on May 12, 2016 11:13:28 GMT
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Post by indigoblue on May 12, 2016 23:15:04 GMT
Agreed, Erin - and there are so many bittersweet relationships/situations in the film just like- dare I say it?- one becomes more familiar with as one travels through life, so it resonates more as you get old...with it!
But I'd also like to say that, as young as 5, when I first saw the film, I nearly cheered when Maria turned round and said "Only until another governess can be found". Because this was Maria standing firm, laying down the law and not being taken for a ride; call it Women's Lib if you like, but I felt it was the voice of an independent, self-respecting woman we heard there, and it meant Georg was going to have to up his game if was going to win her.
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Post by eacampbell on May 13, 2016 2:12:15 GMT
I can't claim any Women's Lib feelings when I was that young, but I was probably about 7 or 8 when I began to take unholy glee really enjoy and find amusement in Maria sassing the Captain and his reactions!
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 10, 2016 1:10:10 GMT
I see the points you all are making and, for me, I see a little bit of all of that in his nod and smile. I agree with utility_singer that he definitely intended to "have things out" with Maria right there - not only the will you stay part, but I also think he was going to be rather persistent as to getting her to reveal why she left. In my mind, at this point, he knows he can't deny what he's feeling for her any longer, but he wants to make sure she is on the same page before he plans his next move. I also agree with clarinetjamie that his look towards Maria is very tender. To me, since he can no longer deny that he loves her, that tenderness becomes harder to hide. Finally, indigoblue, I can see where it does look like he's reminding himself that he's engaged. It probably surprised him to remember there even was an Elsa when she joined them! For me, what I see is Georg being surprised that Maria has returned and also incredibly happy that she has (as evidenced by the way he returned her "Good evening." - There's definitely some amusement and happiness in his tone, as well as a bit of affection). I think that, when he approaches her, he's definitely looking to see why she left - I think he has his suspicions and he wants to see if he's right and she returns his feelings. He's so focused on her at this point that he forgets everything else, including the fact that he's engaged. I think he's startled when Elsa joins them, it shocks him back into the reality of the whole situation. I think, when Maria congratulates him, his nod is an automatic response (courtesy tells him he should accept her congratulations though I think it's probably one of the last things he's really thinking about). Even then, I think he's looking for Maria's reaction, anything to let him know that she loves him. Also, I think that he can't quite cover up his feelings at this point - hence the tenderness of that little smile. To me, he definitely knows he's made a mistake, he wants to talk to Maria and he needs to figure out his next move. That's why he follows after her for a step or two when he asks if she's going to stay. Her answer drives home to him that he's got some difficult decisions to make and they need to be made quickly. There is sooooooo much subtext in this brief little scene and it's so well-acted by everybody that I think I could find something different each time I watch it! Of course, that's one of the best things about the whole movie - it grows with you: you first fall in love with it as a child for the music and the happy sweetness of it, then find more and more reasons to keep watching it and loving it as you get older and catch on to the more subtle things the actors (especially CP) have added. AWESOME. This whole discussion makes me so happy!
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 10, 2016 23:14:31 GMT
Can we have some more of that, please?!
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Post by augiesannie on Jun 29, 2016 12:03:38 GMT
Can we have some more of that, please?! Yes! Calling eacampbell !!
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Post by clarinetjamie on Jun 29, 2016 22:56:50 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but there is something in the way he says "Good Evening" that just gives me goosebumps and makes me melt every time I hear it.
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Post by eacampbell on Jun 30, 2016 0:47:58 GMT
Can we have some more of that, please?! Yes! Calling eacampbell !! I've been so miserably busy with changes at my job that I haven't even had the time to check in recently!! That said, I agree with indigoblue, I love the tone he uses when he says "Good evening." That could be because I have a general weakness for certain voices and Christopher Plummer tops that list (which would also include Tom Hiddleston, Nathan Page and Tom Ellis - just off the top of my head ). But, I would love a(nother as I'm certain it's been done before) discussion of Georg singing Edelweiss. Not just the significant looks he keeps sending Maria (which as are downright swoon worthy as they are telling), but the whole song. I love that you can actually see Georg reconnecting with his children in a very honest and sincere manner. I love how he goes from self-conscious and uncomfortable to being absorbed in his children. It's one of the first glimpses we get of Georg the father, rather than the disciplinarian, and it's nicely rounded out by the berry-picking scene where we see the fruition of that first connection between father and children. I think I'll be squeezing in some time to rewatch these scenes soon and maybe I'll be able to add a little more to my thoughts then. But, I would love to hear everybody's own impressions!
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Post by utility_singer on Jun 30, 2016 13:09:11 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but there is something in the way he says "Good Evening" that just gives me goosebumps and makes me melt every time I hear it. Not just you. In those two little words I hear relief at her return, a bit of amusement (perhaps at the children surrounding her like a fortress?), and a touch of hope that perhaps she's come back for him.
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 30, 2016 23:27:05 GMT
Also his tone belies expectation - think if he had said it without the rise in pitch, it would have been very different.
(I too am a sucker for a rich and honeyed voice such as his. Do you think he has any idea the effect it has upon mere mortals such as us?!)
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Post by nicky on Jul 1, 2016 17:12:43 GMT
Also his tone belies expectation - think if he had said it without the rise in pitch, it would have been very different. (I too am a sucker for a rich and honeyed voice such as his. Do you think he has any idea the effect it has upon mere mortals such as us?!) Totally agree. It is also such a warm greeting and also I think he expresses his amused curiosity at her return. I think it's also the realisation that she does have feelings for him. In that moment he has totally forgotten about Elsa until she rudely interrupts them. But even when she's there, it's really only Maria that he is interested in. Something else that strikes me when he speaks those two words is that they sound very sensual, that this is probably the way he might speak to her after they are married when they are alone together... just my take on it anyway!
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 1, 2016 23:17:10 GMT
Yes, I like thinking about that last one!
I am interested in your observation that he expresses amused curiosity at her return; being very attracted to her, he is bound to feel huge curiosity as to why she left and why she has returned. But this is not something he can reveal as he is engaged to Elsa, so he covers it up in a patrician sort of way and seems 'amused by her antics', which appears to put his interest in her at arm's length, allowing him to enquire further without blowing his cover. Because her return begs the question to him "Is it for me?", and he is desperate to know - except, as we know, Maria carefully sidesteps that one...
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Post by crushing on Nov 2, 2016 9:52:49 GMT
He spends a lot of the festival grabbing her hand (I haven't done a count but it is several times). Not sure whether it is more of a Georg/Maria moment or more Chris/Julie moment! Since he has confessed to being several sheets to the wind while filming that, I vote Chris/Julie. Remember, during filming he was still singing back to his own tracks, and Bill Lee didn't dub them until afterward. I think he needed all the support she could give him. I also read somewhere---his book? an interview?---that while he recorded the tracks she was with him and 'held his hand' through the whole thing. Whether he meant literally or figuratively (or both), there was far more to that friendship than we'll ever know. The yummiest bit of him putting on the gloves? The way he bites his lower lip. When Julie did the 50th anniversary special and she re walked the wedding scene she said I dont have the gown and Diane sawyer says But you have your memories..and Julie's reply of "oh boy do I ever" always makes me think that more happened behind the scenes between Chris and Julie... or is it just me? Between all the little looks and touches they can't all be down to acting surely.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Nov 2, 2016 22:24:34 GMT
My personal belief is that they had a crush on one another, but did not act on it other than being flirtatious with one another. She had her daughter on set and that pretty much put a halt to anything he may have been tempted to try.
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 3, 2016 0:36:21 GMT
I vaguely remember reading (maybe in Forever Liesl) that it was very cold in the church at Mondsee, and Chris was at his most acerbic and up to trouble. Apparently he said something like 'It's as cold as witches' tits in here!' which had everyone smirking! Interesting to know what Julie thought...
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Post by utility_singer on Nov 3, 2016 10:50:39 GMT
My personal belief is that they had a crush on one another, but did not act on it other than being flirtatious with one another. She had her daughter on set and that pretty much put a halt to anything he may have been tempted to try. This is what they both have said in interviews. From personal experience, you "act" behavior but you can't "act" chemistry. It is either there or it isn't. And they have it, in abundance.
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Post by clarinetjamie on Nov 6, 2016 7:07:46 GMT
Oh they definitely have the chemistry, it's what makes the movie so darn good. Some of three beat chemistry I've ever seen.
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Post by emilia78 on Apr 19, 2020 17:42:11 GMT
Oh, yes, another one I like to point out is the way he takes her hand when they are singing during the festival. each time I watch this scene I am melting....CP has said that during filming this scene at night it was very cold and he had been drinking and he was drunk haha. But we do not see a drunk person do we??
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Post by emilia78 on Apr 19, 2020 18:42:08 GMT
I am curious to get everybody's opinion on a different gesture, though. When Maria returns, after Elsa had joined them and Maria is giving her congratulations, what do you all read in that little nod and half-smile he gives Maria? I've often fluctuated in what I see in that gesture and I'm curious to hear other thoughts. I think that when Maria left without saying goodbye, so abruptly, he was embarassed, he was searching for an explanation and could not find one. He could not understand that she was pressured, overwhelmed and scared by the realization of her own feelings of love and guilt against her devotion to god. I think he felt betrayed, maybe rejected because, although she clearly showed him feelings of love and sexuality and he felt clicked by her, she suddenly said that she missed the abbey and her life as postulant instead of explaining to him or at least finding an excuse to leave the villa. It is like she implied that everything that occured between them was not true. So when Maria returns, let's imagine he watches the whole scene. How happy, smiling and singing, flying with joy she is, and how devastated she becomes when hearing about the engagement. It is the white-black contrast in Maria's face. I think that, after talking with the RM, she had hopes and expectations about her relationship with the Captain. Something inside her was telling her that he also loved her. Therefore when she finds out about the engagement, all her hopes and dreams are crashed. She is not going to ask for his love anymore, as she told the RM, because he chose another woman to get engaged to. Νow she feels the uttermost loneliness I think...So when he appears, she manages to act her role typically and congratulate him with the utmost coldness. Now he knows that he was not rejected by her, something else happens, but he fails to figure out what...and he contemplates about the reasons of her leaving and coming back... The way he grabs Elsa's hand shows, in my eyes, something superficial, he is deep in his thoughts, he is not there walking beside Elsa. At dinner he is silent and when Maria in the blue dress strolls around the garden, he watches her. He is making his decisions.
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Post by Reisova on Jun 21, 2021 20:15:36 GMT
Oh they definitely have the chemistry, it's what makes the movie so darn good. Some of three beat chemistry I've ever seen. And it's so strange I have been watched CP many others movies and never saw such intense acting and deep looks, that is unbelievable. Anyway I think they made such shame against CP for not him making Oscar candidate for supporting role. And even he was not liked TSOM because everyone recognise him by this role I claim in this movie he gives maximum in this role.
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Post by Reisova on Jun 21, 2021 20:28:46 GMT
My favourite gestures: G face after (milliseconds to trotle her), I don't know your signal Sir (ha-ha), then how he use every opportunity to watch her like hawk, small gestures when touch children nose, shock on face after E confirm his fillings, intense loooks during dance, sometimes when he walks like he is dancing, barking with Max, and definitely when calls M, Captain ha ha!!! And she really become... Captain...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jun 27, 2021 21:27:05 GMT
I see the points you all are making and, for me, I see a little bit of all of that in his nod and smile. I agree with utility_singer that he definitely intended to "have things out" with Maria right there - not only the will you stay part, but I also think he was going to be rather persistent as to getting her to reveal why she left. In my mind, at this point, he knows he can't deny what he's feeling for her any longer, but he wants to make sure she is on the same page before he plans his next move. I also agree with clarinetjamie that his look towards Maria is very tender. To me, since he can no longer deny that he loves her, that tenderness becomes harder to hide. Finally, indigoblue , I can see where it does look like he's reminding himself that he's engaged. It probably surprised him to remember there even was an Elsa when she joined them! For me, what I see is Georg being surprised that Maria has returned and also incredibly happy that she has (as evidenced by the way he returned her "Good evening." - There's definitely some amusement and happiness in his tone, as well as a bit of affection). I think that, when he approaches her, he's definitely looking to see why she left - I think he has his suspicions and he wants to see if he's right and she returns his feelings. He's so focused on her at this point that he forgets everything else, including the fact that he's engaged. I think he's startled when Elsa joins them, it shocks him back into the reality of the whole situation. I think, when Maria congratulates him, his nod is an automatic response (courtesy tells him he should accept her congratulations though I think it's probably one of the last things he's really thinking about). Even then, I think he's looking for Maria's reaction, anything to let him know that she loves him. Also, I think that he can't quite cover up his feelings at this point - hence the tenderness of that little smile. To me, he definitely knows he's made a mistake, he wants to talk to Maria and he needs to figure out his next move. That's why he follows after her for a step or two when he asks if she's going to stay. Her answer drives home to him that he's got some difficult decisions to make and they need to be made quickly. There is sooooooo much subtext in this brief little scene and it's so well-acted by everybody that I think I could find something different each time I watch it! Of course, that's one of the best things about the whole movie - it grows with you: you first fall in love with it as a child for the music and the happy sweetness of it, then find more and more reasons to keep watching it and loving it as you get older and catch on to the more subtle things the actors (especially CP) have added. AWESOME. This whole discussion makes me so happy! I stumbled upon this discussion today and can't get it out of my head. Can we talk about Georg's "good evening" after Maria returns? There are some great posts about it in this thread. He sounds happy. Like, he's allowed to forget the situation he has gotten himself into and be playful again, even if it is just for a moment.
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 28, 2021 23:18:33 GMT
Yes, he is half-smiling all the time when he is on the balcony talking to her - the first time in the film he has done this much!
He also has a really dreamy look which increases until Elsa emerges from the house, after which he tries so hard to look like a couple that he almost looks hostile to her. Then it is as if he finds it too much when Maria comes close to congratulate them, and he looks like he is really battling with his emotions.
The interplay between Georg and Elsa after he asks "You are going to stay?" is exquisite - he looks so conflicted, which Elsa picks up before trying to hook him again, but his eyes are all for Maria, even after he takes up Elsa's hand and pats it nervously...delicious!
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 1, 2021 23:07:25 GMT
Thinking about the way he pats Elsa's hand strikes me as intriguing; ostensibly it is an affectionate gesture towards Elsa, affording G & E some polite physical contact at a time when Georg's attention has been sorely distracted by Maria.
But the same gesture is also used to comiserate with people, as with a child who has been hurt somehow; an adult may pat them gently to soothe them and show understanding. So for Georg to pat her hand like that is as though he is comiserating with her because he has lost his heart to Maria, and not her.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jul 5, 2021 1:49:44 GMT
My read of Georg's expression at this moment is that inside he is bursting with happiness she has come back, but is doing his best poker face. I know I have been in similar circumstances when I am maybe dying with laughter and the boss comes along and you do that thing where you turn it off suddenly - but it never completely turns off, you have a half smile or a smile you can barely contain. Obvious;y there are 7 children looking at him (and just earlier, he had said about Maria leaving "she missed her life at the abbey too much...and that's all there is to it".) Now he KNOWS there is more to it and he's pleased as punch, but not wanting to give too much away. LOVE his face at this moment (well, all moments, but this one in particular is very fetching!)
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