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Post by augiesannie on Dec 17, 2013 11:08:37 GMT
I thought it was the wine.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 11:20:00 GMT
Oh, undoubtably the wine... Not!!
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 17, 2013 11:59:11 GMT
LOL I think I am president of the Riding Crop Fan Club, perhaps the entire membership. :-)
And I agree with you, he is totally rattled. Maria's return has completely rocked his world.
eta: Anne, I don't know that in this scene he's thinking, "ooh, I gotta marry her"; I do think that seeing how hurt she is touches him deeply, and he knows he needs to do something. That seems to be the motivation for him asking if she's there to stay, because it really is an awkwardly timed question if we stop to think about it. It's his 'man' way of letting her know he wants her to stay; sort of a "can I call you sometime?" after meeting a date for the first time. lol
That's what Elsa is reacting to--not just the drop of her hand, but she reads him well. That's why she dresses the way she does at dinner.
I really, really need to write THAT dinner scene.
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Post by lemacd on Dec 17, 2013 13:27:27 GMT
Oh, undoubtably the wine... Not!! charleybec, you are so very much one of us. i also do not believe that he knew everything that was happening at this moment. I mean, he had ideas... like i said, i think the look on her face, her "oh, i see" answer to the news... up until this point, he wondered. and he fantasized. but he didn't know. and i have to think that in order for him to propose to elsa he had to convince himself that it was all just imaginary and not worth a second thought. but now she's back and she tipped her hand and well... what to do, what to do. quiet at dinner, indeed. thanks to his sea legs, he didn't puke. but that laugh when he says good evening... augiesannie (can someone explain how to tag a person?) do you think his suppress laugh is that he is trying not to be unbuttoned? this scene is momentous. gazebo ga-scheebo. this... this is where the story hinges. IMHO. ok... the day is calling. |
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 17, 2013 15:46:38 GMT
Yes, totally agree, he is standing there being all Man-LIke - "need to do something. engage brain." I think it was the last time we talked about this, maybe even in this thread which definitely takes the prize for delicious meandering, that I ended up writing the Balcony, which might be my favorite thing I wrote, and really was, like, a reflection of everything you guys showed me about him in these critical few hours. I would love to read a story about dinner. I am tempted to create such a thread but, maybe utility doesn't need it at this point, and also, like, I'm at work. I'm going to characterize the nervous laugh as giddy, dizzy relief. "Not sure what's going to happen now, what a mess, but all I know is that I'm glad to see her, glad to see my children laughing again, and while I'm sorry to see that she's upset, it means that my suspicions had some foundation." lemacd, you tag people by typing a @ immediately followed by their name. Eaiser to mess up with people who have fancy names. Sometimes I get lazy and say @utility which doesn't work,of course. |
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Post by lemacd on Dec 17, 2013 16:30:18 GMT
love everything you just wrote. and a dinner fanfic would be sooo lovely. and i sooooo don't have room on my writing plate to write it. and i soooo am going to start tagging people now that i know. thanks.
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 17, 2013 16:33:46 GMT
I mean, the guy was a naval hero. Certainly he believes he can think his way out of this one. Though he can't, presumably use his torpedoes.
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Post by lemacd on Dec 17, 2013 16:44:25 GMT
OOOOOOOOOOH SNAP! how are you getting any work done, my dear?  ? |
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 17, 2013 16:53:48 GMT
well, it's one of those days where people keep coming in here to ask me stupid questions every five minutes, can't get anything done anyway. blame them.
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 17, 2013 17:35:23 GMT
Oh, he'll use the torpedoes.  Dinner scene is swirling in my brain. At least this one won't wind up in the gutter. |
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Post by augiesannie on Dec 17, 2013 17:53:04 GMT
So funny that you are on this assignment because . . . I did try one version of dinner in MNN, sure there are lots of scenarios to explore . . . I think I had M cynically observing to herself that E&G certainly weren't acting very cozy, and G staring at M, and M trying to meet the children's excited demands for attention but getting distracted, and their eyes occaisionally meeting. But anyway.
I am at a point in WG where (not much of a spoiler alert) I had to decide what to do about dinner, and I just sent G&E out because I couldn't bear to have to write it again. So glad you are figuring it out!
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 18, 2013 0:18:00 GMT
Gosh, it's so nice to know someone else has been through this frame by frame, and I'm not the only obsessive nut around here!
All I can say is, how many other films stand up to dissection like this, especially as, at the end, one still has questions to ask?
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Post by utility_singer on Dec 18, 2013 1:19:02 GMT
Very few, if any. Excellent direction, superb acting. And it doesn't hurt that CP is so easy on the eyes.
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Post by indigoblue on Dec 19, 2013 0:38:55 GMT
Ooooh, you can say that again!
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Post by jammie13 on Jan 27, 2014 14:21:45 GMT
Loving this thread, and the screen shot site is AMAZING!!
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Post by lemacd on Jan 27, 2014 14:47:02 GMT
Yes, it's a balcony job alright: the bilateral hand-patting on the balustrade (more subtle emotional displacement gestures from Mr P), tells you the moment he decides he has to ditch Elsa for the (as yet untested) Maria - and it could still all end in disaster, especially as Elsa may well leave immediately for Vienna, leaving him high and dry if he doesn't get his gal. Ah, squirm on: don't you just love it?!! this has to be one of our best threads ever. as i read it again and got to this point, it occurs to me that maybe the line "you can't marry someone when you're in love with someone else." was not just a clever swoony buttoned up way to give maria a hint what he was feeling. maybe it was an epiphany he had right as elsa arrived on the balcony. and possibly (thinking as i type, so i really do mean maybe) what he meant by "utterly unfair to you" meant that it was wrong of him to hang on to elsa as a back up plan. maybe this all a big "duh"... it's monday. |
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 27, 2014 15:37:06 GMT
I don't recall if I put the balcony on my TSOM challenge list, but it's definitely one of my favorites because it is the clearest insight into -- or the best blank canvas for creating your own story about - his personality.
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Post by utility_singer on Jan 27, 2014 15:52:58 GMT
Yes, it's a balcony job alright: the bilateral hand-patting on the balustrade (more subtle emotional displacement gestures from Mr P), tells you the moment he decides he has to ditch Elsa for the (as yet untested) Maria - and it could still all end in disaster, especially as Elsa may well leave immediately for Vienna, leaving him high and dry if he doesn't get his gal. Ah, squirm on: don't you just love it?!! this has to be one of our best threads ever. as i read it again and got to this point, it occurs to me that maybe the line "you can't marry someone when you're in love with someone else." was not just a clever swoony buttoned up way to give maria a hint what he was feeling. maybe it was an epiphany he had right as elsa arrived on the balcony. and possibly (thinking as i type, so i really do mean maybe) what he meant by "utterly unfair to you" meant that it was wrong of him to hang on to elsa as a back up plan. maybe this all a big "duh"... it's monday. I agree with this epiphany, but I think it happened earlier (of course, I do) when Elsa joined them on the steps, and as Maria tries to escape into the house he asks if she is back to stay. If she said yes, he'd have more time to find out how she felt, and more time to figure out how to let Elsa down politely. That leads to my new epiphany, when he starts to tell Elsa, "When two people talk of marriage..." and she interrupts him. I think Elsa knows he is going to say something about how they should truly be in love, and she knows by now he is in love but not with her, and she goes on to save face and urge him to go find Maria. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 18:32:49 GMT
I just love how Elsa is so gracious here. Yes, I'm a member of the BFC so I can (almost) easily forgive the contorting Maria at the party moment with what she does here.
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 27, 2014 19:24:21 GMT
agree about Elsa's interruption. love it. also a face-saver: in the play there's actually a line, I thought (although hm, did I hear this in SOML?) about "No, Georg, let me do it."
Although I am of the school that a lot happens in his mind on the balcony, it's not that I think he's clueless before that. Of course he's attracted to her. And he knows there's something going on between them. But after all he could think she might actually WANT to go back to the Abbey, he might not want have wanted to get in the way of that. Agree that his world view shifts when she comes back and they're standing on the steps. I just think that balcony scene is where he puts the pieces together and forms an action plan. "Elsa." "E-ELSA!" I loved writing that little balcony story which really came from all of you!
I love the idea of "You can't..." be sort of thinking out loud. He almost delivers the line that way. The same way some people think that "anyway, the reason no longer exists" is sort of M thinking out loud after answering his question.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 19:42:30 GMT
I love your balcony story Anne, I think I'm going to go and read it again.
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Post by Irennuska on Feb 11, 2014 17:02:34 GMT
Loving this thread, and the screen shot site is AMAZING!! Agreed!!And another thing I like too about this thread is how good are we at meandering from one scene to another in the same thread. I know, I know, @augiesannie, you said it! (all credit to u!) BTW, I am on for lemacd's suggestion about renaming the thread to "please don't ask me why it always comes back to the balcony scene" LOL, it's funny, and sooo true |
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Post by augiesannie on Feb 11, 2014 18:07:37 GMT
I think this thread dates back to a time when we thought we could keep our threads organized. And maybe that was supposed to be my job (along with, ahem, the other GMs?) but I didn't do it, and it's hopeless now. There is a search function. I always said that I wanted this forum to be for everyone, and honestly I don't want to spend my TSOM time organizing the forum. So I'm really glad you like the meandering Irennuska. |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 23, 2020 16:15:03 GMT
This whole scene is just unbearable! The body language!. Elsa grabbing Georg's hand and physically getting between him and Maria. Him letting go of Elsa's hand and stepping towards Maria as she walks to the house. Elsa's expressions. It's all just ridiculously fabulous! But also hard for me watch because it's so heartbreaking.
What do you think Georg's response to this line would have been if Elsa hadn't come out? "What do you mean the reason no longer exists? Does this mean you aren't returning to the abbey?" Or do you think he knows exactly what she means because he saw her crestfallen face when the children told her about his engagement?
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Post by pandaexpress on Jan 24, 2020 6:54:21 GMT
This whole scene is just unbearable! The body language!. Elsa grabbing Georg's hand and physically getting between him and Maria. Him letting go of Elsa's hand and stepping towards Maria as she walks to the house. Elsa's expressions. It's all just ridiculously fabulous! But also hard for me watch because it's so heartbreaking. What do you think Georg's response to this line would have been if Elsa hadn't come out? "What do you mean the reason no longer exists? Does this mean you aren't returning to the abbey?" Or do you think he knows exactly what she means because he saw her crestfallen face when the children told her about his engagement? I like to think that he heard Brigitta tell Maria that he was engaged. Just because when he says hello he is already standing on the edge of the stairs so he was out there for at least a few seconds before. Watching on a superficial level, I always assumed he had no idea why she left and that's why he kept asking her. But then I also like to think that deep down he does know why she left and just wants to hear her say it. |
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 24, 2020 14:50:46 GMT
This whole scene is just unbearable! The body language!. Elsa grabbing Georg's hand and physically getting between him and Maria. Him letting go of Elsa's hand and stepping towards Maria as she walks to the house. Elsa's expressions. It's all just ridiculously fabulous! But also hard for me watch because it's so heartbreaking. What do you think Georg's response to this line would have been if Elsa hadn't come out? "What do you mean the reason no longer exists? Does this mean you aren't returning to the abbey?" Or do you think he knows exactly what she means because he saw her crestfallen face when the children told her about his engagement? I like to think that he heard Brigitta tell Maria that he was engaged. Just because when he says hello he is already standing on the edge of the stairs so he was out there for at least a few seconds before. Watching on a superficial level, I always assumed he had no idea why she left and that's why he kept asking her. But then I also like to think that deep down he does know why she left and just wants to hear her say it. I think he heard Brigitta too, and saw Maria's reaction. He has to have a guess on why she left, and since it happened so abruptly, he probably didn't buy the whole - I just miss the abbey and had to leave in the middle of the night even though I'm going back there forever in a few weeks excuse. I always thought that he thought he had scared her way with the Laendler. I just wonder how deep this conversation would have progressed to if Elsa hadn't shown up. Would he have asked her if something happened the night of the party to scare her? Would he have asked if he had done anything to made her want to leave? |
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Apr 24, 2020 14:10:01 GMT
I agree with all of you. Georg had to have heard and seen Brigitta tell Maria that he and the Baroness were engaged.
It really is one of my favorite scenes in the movie. So much emotion and tension.
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Post by indigoblue on May 21, 2020 23:36:06 GMT
It would have been a little awkward to ask her why she left, even if the baroness hadn't arrived.
But he might have asked her whether she would stay, in which case in this situation, they may have been able to discuss that a little more. That way he might have been able to winkle a bit more information out of her about her motives, and of course, she could have asked HIM what on earth he was up to!!
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Post by riana11 on May 22, 2020 23:46:36 GMT
I would have liked to have seen more of a discussion between the two of them without the baroness being there. I don't know if he would have asked why she left at that point, but I always thought he would have tried to persuade her stay until September. It didn't seem like he and Elsa set any kind of date for their wedding. He was probably hoping to buy some time to straighten everything out.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 24, 2020 12:37:49 GMT
Georg's reaction to Elsa's "Fraulein Maria, you've returned" reminds me of the end of the Laendler. He is completely focused on trying to read Maria and then Elsa's voice kind of startles him back to reality. I wonder if Elsa notices this too.
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