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Post by indigoblue on Jul 28, 2020 23:33:11 GMT
I'm sure she senses he just isn't reacting to her (Elsa) like he normally does - minute changes in body language are so easy to pick up, they scream loud as words. You just have to look at Elsa's face when he turns away from her to ask Maria if she will stay - it is an essay in conflicting emotions.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 20, 2020 17:18:11 GMT
It struck me today how hopeful Georg sounds when he is asking "You are back to stay?". Like there is some part of him that is saying - everything will be just like it was, she's back, we can go back to being friends, everyone will be happy again. Then when she answers with "Only until arrangements can be made for another governess", his hopes are dashed. He then has a flash of a contemplative look (just before he remembers that Elsa is next to him) that just says to me - I screwed this up so badly! She came back because she feels the same way about me as I do about her, and I'm engaged to someone else! How do I get myself out of this?! Do you know the look I'm talking about?
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 22, 2020 22:01:42 GMT
Only too well!
If you watch in slow motion you pick up even more...
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Post by ANeedlePullingThread on Aug 22, 2020 23:57:00 GMT
Only too well! If you watch in slow motion you pick up even more... That line is an amazing “burn” to use the vernacular. In the beginning Maria believes she is temporary because Elsa will be the new mother (Frau Schmidt’s facial expression is wickedly wonderful at that statement) We hear the captain tell the children they will no longer need a governess, they’ll have a new mother. Then Maria hits him with “only until arrangements can be made for another Governess”. She’s letting him know this woman will be no mother, she will fill no void or need. You’ll need a governess regardless of whether or not she becomes your wife.” I think Elsa is taken back by that remark, it was a subtle slap. And Georgia’s face changes at that moment. I’d like to think he realizes she’s correct. And that the mother of his children is actually walking away. He nearly forgets Elsa’s presence. Julie Andrews eyes are everything in that scene. The hurt, the confusion, the pain. Her icy gaze at the baroness. Oh it’s classic
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 23, 2020 23:00:34 GMT
Golly, I'd completely missed that implication! How right you are, em315!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 25, 2020 20:16:05 GMT
Interesting! I always took this to mean another governess for the rest of the summer, or maybe to get them through wedding planning. If she is subtly saying that he has missed his chance at getting the children a proper mother, then the line about the baroness making things FINE for him is all the more tongue in cheek. It's obvious to everyone that Elsa doesn't have the ability to make things fine. At least not in the mother department.
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 11, 2020 22:45:58 GMT
oh gosh ANeedlePullingThread I NEVER thought of this before. Interesting that Georg tells them "you're not going to have a governess anymore, you're going to have a new mother," and he and Elsa both look kind of sick. They already know better. You are BRILLIANT!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 7, 2021 21:38:13 GMT
Only too well! If you watch in slow motion you pick up even more... That line is an amazing “burn” to use the vernacular. In the beginning Maria believes she is temporary because Elsa will be the new mother (Frau Schmidt’s facial expression is wickedly wonderful at that statement) We hear the captain tell the children they will no longer need a governess, they’ll have a new mother. Then Maria hits him with “only until arrangements can be made for another Governess”. She’s letting him know this woman will be no mother, she will fill no void or need. You’ll need a governess regardless of whether or not she becomes your wife.” I think Elsa is taken back by that remark, it was a subtle slap. And Georgia’s face changes at that moment. I’d like to think he realizes she’s correct. And that the mother of his children is actually walking away. He nearly forgets Elsa’s presence. Julie Andrews eyes are everything in that scene. The hurt, the confusion, the pain. Her icy gaze at the baroness. Oh it’s classic We are given a very strong visual in this scene of the children gathered around Maria, with her holding hands with the little ones when Georg comes out. It just further adds to your observation about how mothering Maria is in comparison to Elsa, which Georg of course knows. The body language of the children with Maria versus Elsa is striking.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 9, 2021 0:17:44 GMT
Yes, they never get physically close to Elsa - except when they are ordered to.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 20, 2022 20:10:25 GMT
Do you think Georg noticed the striking difference in wardrobe from the first time he met Maria to this return? Clearly, this new dress (that was so conveniently provided by the new postulant), was not in the bin of clothes that the poor didn't want. Do you think his first reaction was to think that she had left the abbey (permanently) prior to this return?
I just wonder what he thinks has transpired in her life in these missing weeks. She was clearly surprised that anything had transpired in his (married?).
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 20, 2022 23:48:55 GMT
In the play I think he remarks on her new dress - "new postulant?" - but you're right, he doesn't know if she's shut that door behind her, or if she is going to go back after that other governess is arranged. Especially if he's not 100% confident that he knows why she left in the first place!
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 21, 2022 0:35:44 GMT
If you see it purely from Georg's point of view, he was minding his own business in his study, contemplating a rather depressing life with Elsa, when he heard the kid's voices and singing. He looks out, and there is Maria encircled by the kids. He goes out, excited to see her, but for all he knows, she has only come back to see the kids because she has missed them. And, darn it, she looks so gorgeous in that flattering dress (after the drab clothes she arrived in). But she's not there for him...so he questions her, only getting non-comittal answers back...I feel sorry for the guy!
So he continues questioning her in the gazebo, and she still doesn't give anything away... and is even provocative ("Is that wrong?"). It's only when they are in the gazebo and he says Elsa and he are no longer engaged that the walls begin to tumble.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 19, 2022 23:32:10 GMT
I was comparing a couple things in my mind about this scene.
The captain slamming the ballroom doors open in anger, then waiting for her to pass through so that he can reprimand her during their first meeting versus his relieved smile and gentle voice when he thinks he has lost her forever, only to find her back at the villa and instinctively mothering his children. The tone of his "Good evening" says to me - my most desperate wish has just come true and the dark clouds around me have lifted. Though, it's even a little playful, like he is enjoying the thought of having someone he is so comfortable talking to back in his life. He seems singularly focused in his own world here, ignoring that Maria is obviously hurting and that Elsa could (and does) appear at any moment. Maybe he almost feels like he is in a dream?
What about Maria's reaction to G&E's engagement news? "That would be wonderful! The children will have a mother again!" versus "Oh, I see". There has been a lot of water under the bridge between these two lines! I don't know that Elsa was ever going to be the mother that Maria was hoping for, but she certainly wasn't banking on applying for the job herself.
She looks so vulnerable standing on the terrace alone once the kids go in for dinner. It reminds me of the shot they show of her walking in the front door where you can see the whole entrance hall with just plainly dressed Maria standing in it. I think she feels equally out of place in both scenes.
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Post by missisa on May 20, 2022 6:42:34 GMT
I was comparing a couple things in my mind about this scene. The captain slamming the ballroom doors open in anger, then waiting for her to pass through so that he can reprimand her during their first meeting versus his relieved smile and gentle voice when he thinks he has lost her forever, only to find her back at the villa and instinctively mothering his children. The tone of his "Good evening" says to me - my most desperate wish has just come true and the dark clouds around me have lifted. Though, it's even a little playful, like he is enjoying the thought of having someone he is so comfortable talking to back in his life. He seems singularly focused in his own world here, ignoring that Maria is obviously hurting and that Elsa could (and does) appear at any moment. Maybe he almost feels like he is in a dream? What about Maria's reaction to G&E's engagement news? "That would be wonderful! The children will have a mother again!" versus "Oh, I see". There has been a lot of water under the bridge between these two lines! I don't know that Elsa was ever going to be the mother that Maria was hoping for, but she certainly wasn't banking on applying for the job herself. She looks so vulnerable standing on the terrace alone once the kids go in for dinner. It reminds me of the shot they show of her walking in the front door where you can see the whole entrance hall with just plainly dressed Maria standing in it. I think she feels equally out of place in both scenes. This post is deliciously described!! I subscribe to all your words. Very shortly after that moment of enchantment, something is suddenly broken by Elsa's irruption. At that moment when Elsa surrounds Georg and he reciprocates, it seems that I see in his eyes some hint of revenge, maybe only a few milliseconds but there it is in his look, as if to say: "you left without telling me" (then verbalizes it by softening a little "even to the children"). It is a subtlety that I love and I think it was commented on in some thread.
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Post by augiesannie on May 28, 2022 23:53:09 GMT
I was comparing a couple things in my mind about this scene. The captain slamming the ballroom doors open in anger, then waiting for her to pass through so that he can reprimand her during their first meeting versus his relieved smile and gentle voice when he thinks he has lost her forever, only to find her back at the villa and instinctively mothering his children. The tone of his "Good evening" says to me - my most desperate wish has just come true and the dark clouds around me have lifted. Though, it's even a little playful, like he is enjoying the thought of having someone he is so comfortable talking to back in his life. He seems singularly focused in his own world here, ignoring that Maria is obviously hurting and that Elsa could (and does) appear at any moment. Maybe he almost feels like he is in a dream? What about Maria's reaction to G&E's engagement news? "That would be wonderful! The children will have a mother again!" versus "Oh, I see". There has been a lot of water under the bridge between these two lines! I don't know that Elsa was ever going to be the mother that Maria was hoping for, but she certainly wasn't banking on applying for the job herself. She looks so vulnerable standing on the terrace alone once the kids go in for dinner. It reminds me of the shot they show of her walking in the front door where you can see the whole entrance hall with just plainly dressed Maria standing in it. I think she feels equally out of place in both scenes. This post is deliciously described!! I subscribe to all your words. Very shortly after that moment of enchantment, something is suddenly broken by Elsa's irruption. At that moment when Elsa surrounds Georg and he reciprocates, it seems that I see in his eyes some hint of revenge, maybe only a few milliseconds but there it is in his look, as if to say: "you left without telling me" (then verbalizes it by softening a little "even to the children"). It is a subtlety that I love and I think it was commented on in some thread. \\ love these observations by missisa and reverendcaptain that a little bit of Georg is playful and a little bit is vengeful, too.
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Post by indigoblue on May 29, 2022 23:38:51 GMT
"Please don't ask me. Anyway, the reason no longer exists"
What do you think was going through Georg's mind when he heard this?
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Post by missisa on May 30, 2022 8:18:34 GMT
in the depths of his psyche he expects a response such as: "to kiss you and hug you every day of my life" 😅 on the surface he probably thought about her continuing the job as governess, but he already verified on the backyard that Maria's intention was not to keep her job forever... What are your theories?
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Post by augiesannie on May 30, 2022 12:22:41 GMT
He might be perceptive enough to wonder, "did she come back on account of our unfinished business, but I saw the look on her face when I came out of the house to find her with the children (he might even have overheard Brigitta and Louisa giving her the news of the engagement), and once she heard of my engagement to Elsa, she is putting that unfinished business behind her, although she'd never admit it." Actually I'm having trouble thinking of another explanation, what do others think? Great question indigoblue!
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Post by missisa on May 30, 2022 13:50:55 GMT
that's probably Georg's big dichotomy: does she come back for professionalism or to face her emotions?
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Post by dontevenknowher on May 31, 2022 0:50:36 GMT
I apologize if this has already been said, but I’ve always subscribed to the belief that his initial statement of “you left without saying goodbye” is something he says before he can stop himself. If you consider that they’re basically standing in a public space having a discussion with very intimate undertones, it’s a risky conversation. Elsa barging in moments later only underscores this. For such a smart man, it’s most definitely not the time or place to ask her what he’s trying to ask, but it’s like he can’t help himself. This is the first time he’s been face to face with just her in (presumably) several days, if not weeks. It’s the first meaningful interaction they’ve had since they danced, and it just feels to me like it’s his unfiltered thoughts. He doesn’t even try to disguise his hurt as primarily through the children, because he talks about her saying goodbye to him first, then adds that she didn’t even say it to them, either.
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Post by missisa on May 31, 2022 7:15:42 GMT
I apologize if this has already been said, but I’ve always subscribed to the belief that his initial statement of “you left without saying goodbye” is something he says before he can stop himself. If you consider that they’re basically standing in a public space having a discussion with very intimate undertones, it’s a risky conversation. Elsa barging in moments later only underscores this. For such a smart man, it’s most definitely not the time or place to ask her what he’s trying to ask, but it’s like he can’t help himself. This is the first time he’s been face to face with just her in (presumably) several days, if not weeks. It’s the first meaningful interaction they’ve had since they danced, and it just feels to me like it’s his unfiltered thoughts. He doesn’t even try to disguise his hurt as primarily through the children, because he talks about her saying goodbye to him first, then adds that she didn’t even say it to them, either. Totally agree with this! it's like when we were talking about the Laender, how everything around them disappeared while they danced and is only interrupted by Brigitta ("your face is all red"), in this case it is the same: their emotions are speaking but, this time, is the Captain the one who cannot repress the phrase, but it seems that nothing around exists except the two of them, until Elsa is the one who interrupts this time.
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Post by augiesannie on May 31, 2022 21:53:53 GMT
I apologize if this has already been said, but I’ve always subscribed to the belief that his initial statement of “you left without saying goodbye” is something he says before he can stop himself. If you consider that they’re basically standing in a public space having a discussion with very intimate undertones, it’s a risky conversation. Elsa barging in moments later only underscores this. For such a smart man, it’s most definitely not the time or place to ask her what he’s trying to ask, but it’s like he can’t help himself. This is the first time he’s been face to face with just her in (presumably) several days, if not weeks. It’s the first meaningful interaction they’ve had since they danced, and it just feels to me like it’s his unfiltered thoughts. He doesn’t even try to disguise his hurt as primarily through the children, because he talks about her saying goodbye to him first, then adds that she didn’t even say it to them, either. Totally agree with this! it's like when we were talking about the Laender, how everything around them disappeared while they danced and is only interrupted by Brigitta ("your face is all red"), in this case it is the same: their emotions are speaking but, this time, is the Captain the one who cannot repress the phrase, but it seems that nothing around exists except the two of them, until Elsa is the one who interrupts this time. Yes, so goood. Also his tone "you left without saying goodbye (unspoken: to me, spoken: even to the children)" has the same adorable petulance as, "nothing was the same while you were away, and it will be all wrong again when you leave."
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Post by missisa on Jun 1, 2022 8:01:07 GMT
I'm actually hearing his velvety voice when I read the quotes 🥺 I miss you Chris
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Post by Chris&Byng on Jun 19, 2022 1:05:58 GMT
"Please don't ask me. Anyway, the reason no longer exists" What do you think was going through Georg's mind when he heard this? I have always thought Georg would be a "quick study" given his past role as a successful Naval Captain - you know, the ability to take in information and process it quickly.
In my mind, Maria's response ("please don't ask me - anyway, the reason no longer exists") tells him exactly what he wanted to hear and confirms she came back for him. If there was a logical reason ("why did you?"... "well, it's quite obvious, Captain" - Maria was always so forthcoming in her conversations) she would have certainly given him one.
There's a relatively long pause (by this movie's standards, anyway) from the time Maria stops talking and when Elsa shows up, and you can see Chris' expression - he's got Georg's wheels turning. He's got a pretty good idea why she has come back - I think this is why he puts that weird pose on when he stands next to Elsa and accepts Maria's congratulations. Like, he's reading her like a book the whole time to see if she really means what she says. By this point in the story, Georg has to know her well.
I don't think he would act on anything unless he had good evidence - so the whole time through dinner ("undoubtedly the wine") he is super quiet, he must be replaying everything - and not just that day's activities - but EVERYTHING - in his mind. So much so, that by the time Elsa meets him on the balcony, he's got a plan.
There's three points in the conversation with Elsa when Georg has the most amazing expressions and they say a lot about what's in his heart. The first is when Elsa sneaks up on him (not really, she's not likely very quiet) and he literally shudders. You can actually hear him exhaling at this point. The second is when he practically rolls his eyes at her when Elsa says she wants Georg to have "some little trifle for the occasion", and then the last one is when Elsa is going on about where they are going to go on their honeymoon and Georg was unable to interrupt her: he purses his lips, tightens his jaw and looks quite guilty at that moment. Chris does this scene so amazingly well- Georg's body language says way more than his words ever could.
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Post by indigoblue on Jun 22, 2022 23:33:06 GMT
Great post!
Yes, that moment when he stands next to Elsa, his new fiancee, knowing that Maria has come back for him, and he knows she is The One.
He looks truly nauseous - Great acting!
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Post by augiesannie on Jul 2, 2022 13:21:08 GMT
indigoblue "nauseous" is just the word for it! and I love Chris&Byng's three points, and the idea that he spends the whole dinner hour reviewing the situation and making a plan.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 28, 2022 23:38:41 GMT
Only too well! If you watch in slow motion you pick up even more... That line is an amazing “burn” to use the vernacular. In the beginning Maria believes she is temporary because Elsa will be the new mother (Frau Schmidt’s facial expression is wickedly wonderful at that statement) We hear the captain tell the children they will no longer need a governess, they’ll have a new mother. Then Maria hits him with “only until arrangements can be made for another Governess”. She’s letting him know this woman will be no mother, she will fill no void or need. You’ll need a governess regardless of whether or not she becomes your wife.” I think Elsa is taken back by that remark, it was a subtle slap. And Georgia’s face changes at that moment. I’d like to think he realizes she’s correct. And that the mother of his children is actually walking away. He nearly forgets Elsa’s presence. Julie Andrews eyes are everything in that scene. The hurt, the confusion, the pain. Her icy gaze at the baroness. Oh it’s classic "Only until arrangements can be made for another governess" really struck me on my last watch. I need to revisit this conversation. Why do you think Georg and Elsa decided to not hire another governess? I would think most rich families would have a governess even if there was a mother at home. It wouldn't be looked down upon, would it? I mean, Elsa is planning trips around the world and yachts for the Mediterranean, so she knows she's not going to be there full time. Is this one of the things they "talked about last night" during the pink lemonade scene? That now that Elsa was going to be their mother they wouldn't need a governess? Did Georg really think that was possible? Did Elsa?! Maybe neither wanted to be the one to voice it out loud that Elsa both didn't want and also was not suited for that role? Did they talk about boarding school and that's why they didn't need a governess, or was Elsa going to drop that bomb later? Wouldn't they need a governess until boarding school could start? Obviously, Maria knew that it wasn't possible that Elsa would be mothering the children without help for any amount of time. Though, I'm sure that wasn't a question once Maria became their mother.
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galan
Full Member
I have destroyed this story multiple times, and I regret nothing.
Posts: 119
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Post by galan on Nov 29, 2022 1:54:19 GMT
"Only until arrangements can be made for another governess" really struck me on my last watch. I need to revisit this conversation. Why do you think Georg and Elsa decided to not hire another governess? I would think most rich families would have a governess even if there was a mother at home. It wouldn't be looked down upon, would it? I mean, Elsa is planning trips around the world and yachts for the Mediterranean, so she knows she's not going to be there full time. Is this one of the things they "talked about last night" during the pink lemonade scene? That now that Elsa was going to be their mother they wouldn't need a governess? Did Georg really think that was possible? Did Elsa?! Maybe neither wanted to be the one to voice it out loud that Elsa both didn't want and also was not suited for that role? Did they talk about boarding school and that's why they didn't need a governess, or was Elsa going to drop that bomb later? Wouldn't they need a governess until boarding school could start? Obviously, Maria knew that it wasn't possible that Elsa would be mothering the children without help for any amount of time. Though, I'm sure that wasn't a question once Maria became their mother. I wonder if it's a matter of not thinking it was necessary. Even if it's a matter of Max joking about whether or not she has made up Georg's mind about getting married. Combine that with her comment about boarding school, I think there's room for that possibility. That she believed she could essentially dictate the terms and that, if she didn't want the children around, they wouldn't be around. She knows he's very grateful to her for the role she has been playing in his life as of late and I wonder how much she thinks she can twist that. That sounds less Machiavellian in my brain. I also wonder if, re: at least needing a governess until the start of boarding school, there was an element of, "Let's not talk about it." Almost as though she was telling herself that, as each day went by, maybe he just wouldn't think about Maria so much, and she only needed to make it through the end of the summer. Almost an emotional war of attrition, I guess, and the moment she mentioned a governess, she would have to start over. Obviously, based on the earlier scene with the children and lemonade, it had been discussed, but I see her preferring to avoid anything around Maria as much as possible. Also, I'm sure it's been thoroughly discussed, but when Elsa walked into that look between the two of them, she had to have realized there was nothing she could do, not really. Again, I'm sure this has been picked to death, that look right then is the next stage in the game of "I want you, but I can't say it, I know I can't have you". Edelweiss is that very young, surface level love; the Ländler is realizing how much more it actually is; and on the terrace, understanding it's time to fish or cut bait.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 19, 2023 20:42:52 GMT
So galan, I'm trying to understand your second paragraph and what you think Elsa thinks about getting a new governess. Are you saying that Elsa wouldn't want to bring up the topic of governess (even though that means she is stuck watching the kids for the rest of the summer) because if she did Georg would want to somehow work it out so Maria could come back and be the governess? Or that any mention of the word governess would make Georg think of Maria (regardless if they were looking for a new governess, not Maria), and him thinking of Maria is something that Elsa would want to avoid at all cost?
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 20, 2023 22:16:36 GMT
When Georg asks "Why did you?", do you think he is asking "Why did you leave without saying goodbye?" (as they were just talking about), or is he actually asking "Why did you leave?"
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