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Post by augiesannie on Mar 22, 2023 10:04:47 GMT
Singing about his homeland and then directing his attention to Maria, to me at least, is because by now he knows of Maria's love for their homeland (mountains, countryside) etc. It is something (beyond the children) that they have in common. yes, I love that - could be the subject of some of those "missing moments" conversations between M&G. Maybe over a meal, he loosens up, talking about the favorite secret hiking and camping spots of his youth, and she responds enthusiastically, and the exchange bubbles along, right up to, "I'll have to take you there someday." And then they realize that Elsa and Max are staring at them and the room has gone silent. And he adds hastily, "I mean, with the children." What just got into me? It's 6 am and I haven't even drunk any coffee yet!
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Post by Chris&Byng on Mar 23, 2023 0:16:43 GMT
Singing about his homeland and then directing his attention to Maria, to me at least, is because by now he knows of Maria's love for their homeland (mountains, countryside) etc. It is something (beyond the children) that they have in common. yes, I love that - could be the subject of some of those "missing moments" conversations between M&G. Maybe over a meal, he loosens up, talking about the favorite secret hiking and camping spots of his youth, and she responds enthusiastically, and the exchange bubbles along, right up to, "I'll have to take you there someday." And then they realize that Elsa and Max are staring at them and the room has gone silent. And he adds hastily, "I mean, with the children." What just got into me? It's 6 am and I haven't even drunk any coffee yet! This is awesome augiesannie - there's definitely a story there. I bet there were many conversations in those missing moments between the two of them when the other people in the background just faded away!
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Post by Chris&Byng on Mar 23, 2023 0:23:05 GMT
it really does feed the imagination about what went on, in between "it will be my first party, Father!" and that first downbeat from the smiling orchestra conductor. I know I have asked this somewhere else before - but what do we make of the camera angle in this scene ("it will be my first party, Father"). I think it's the only time in the movie where you are looking at people only below the waist.
Maria is standing in the doorway (but you only see her from the waist down!) and the children all scatter off to bed. Is it Georg's perspective from the chair he is sitting in? Do we infer he's watching the kids leave the room, but he's really looking at Maria? Is it designed this way to focus on Gretl? Is there some other symbolic meaning?
Here, Gretl is the only one who 'fits' the angle/position of the camera.
Hello, out there! Mr. Wise? I know I call on you often...you're insights would be appreciated
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Post by utility_singer on Mar 23, 2023 11:40:00 GMT
I think it that perspective is to show us that now the children are back as the focus of Georg's life. He's just agreed to the party for them, even though it is supposed to be for Elsa.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 27, 2023 19:10:06 GMT
To make it more obvious that Georg is in the perfect position to casually check out Maria's backside? I don't know. It is an oddly shot sequence. Are there any other shots with really unusual camera angles? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 28, 2023 10:58:55 GMT
I'm not sure why it was shot that way, but it took me many watches to really focus on the good-nights - Georg's kiss for Gretl and Marta, a bit of a wave at Friedrich who bows (??) . Friedrich and Louisa nod to Baroness Schrader. It's really worth watching!
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Post by indigoblue on Mar 29, 2023 14:59:47 GMT
To make it more obvious that Georg is in the perfect position to casually check out Maria's backside? I don't know. It is an oddly shot sequence. Are there any other shots with really unusual camera angles? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Seeing Chris&Byng's first screencap, it does show Maria's extreme slenderness and long legs, which presumably is something prominent in Georg's mind at this moment. The next time we see them together is when he has that cheesy grin on his face as he dons his white gloves before he asks her to dance...maybe that is what is on his mind at this point too - hence the expression!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 5, 2023 19:36:39 GMT
I'm not sure why it was shot that way, but it took me many watches to really focus on the good-nights - Georg's kiss for Gretl and Marta, a bit of a wave at Friedrich who bows (??) . Friedrich and Louisa nod to Baroness Schrader. It's really worth watching! I find this scene telling of the children's personalities. The 2 little girls run over for a kiss from their father (so cute), Kurt does a slight nod and is out of there, the 3 older girls acknowledge both Georg and Elsa by looking in their directions, Friedrich (trying to be a gentleman) bows to both of them in turn. Poor Max, no one said goodnight to him except Brigitta. Have you noticed how Elsa's expression changes from pleased when she is suggesting the party and the children are excited about it, to slightly soured when Maria starts speaking to tell the children to go to bed?
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Post by augiesannie on Apr 7, 2023 20:19:08 GMT
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 14, 2023 23:55:13 GMT
To make it more obvious that Georg is in the perfect position to casually check out Maria's backside? I don't know. It is an oddly shot sequence. Are there any other shots with really unusual camera angles? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Seeing Chris&Byng's first screencap, it does show Maria's extreme slenderness and long legs, which presumably is something prominent in Georg's mind at this moment. The next time we see them together is when he has that cheesy grin on his face as he dons his white gloves before he asks her to dance...maybe that is what is on his mind at this point too - hence the expression! oh! and Georg is obviously checking out Maria's legs during the Laendler -hmmm how delicious! As you have pointed out, the scenes cut from one set of legs and moves into the next...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 4, 2023 18:57:37 GMT
I was at an Oktoberfest over the weekend and the band started playing Edelweiss, which I was quietly singing along with from my spot in the beer line. As I looked around, others were also singing while casually looking around to see if they were the only ones. Eventually, people realized that they weren't the only ones and didn't feel so shy. People sitting by the band, people in the beer line, kids in line for carnival rides, the guys running the game booths - we were all singing full volume and smiling at everyone else who was also singing. It makes me realize how engrained this movie is in so many people's lives, and how happy it makes people to recall those memories. It was a fun moment.
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Post by indigoblue on Oct 5, 2023 23:40:34 GMT
That's so nice! I think the same thing about it being engrained in people's minds when my husband and 19yr old son whistle something from TSOM, never having watched it properly. How is this?! Is it that the music is so catchy, or that the movie gives people the goosebumps? Or that it has become a sort of unifying theme for like-minded people?
When I heard on the radio last week that TSOM sold the most albums in the 1960s decade (and more since), I realised quite how widely the music has spread, and that it is a sort of linking type of communication, or a lingua franca for anyone receptive to it. Like us!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 4, 2024 23:28:01 GMT
I like when Maria asks "Children, who should we hear from next?" that Friedrich runs around the back side of the couches to get to Maria, while Liesl beelines through the rest of the children to get there first. I think they both had the same idea, and trusted Maria to make it happen. I also like that Maria seems a little unsure if this is a good plan, but they all reassure her with their nods and smiles, so she goes for it. It shows what a good team Maria and the children are at this point.
Do you think Georg suspected that he was going to get asked to sing again sooner or later? He seems genuinely surprised here, but the thought has to have crossed his mind.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 16, 2024 0:31:42 GMT
I suppose he didn't think the opportunity or need would arise - if Agathe has been the mover and shaker in musical terms in the house, then he might have just thought it wouldn't happen again. So I think he really was surprised that they should have 'ganged up' on him!
I always think that Bill Lee's voice is perfect for Christopher Plummer - it matches his spoken voice very well. But also I think his real sung voice would have been very endearing. How would that have altered how we view him, if we had seen a bit more of that vulnerability earlier on?
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 16, 2024 15:02:37 GMT
That is such a great point, indigoblue. As you know he always framed the decision as needing to “match” the quality of Julie’s voice, but why did they have to be the same? Maybe it is too soon for him to appear any more vulnerable than he already has in the Apology. (That’s why I think they dropped the post-Edelweiss scene of their looking at each other’s windows.). It’s been so long since he played, and the children are young - I guess he thought they wouldn’t remember? Or maybe he has so completely blocked out music that he doesn’t think of himself that way. I always liked the way he relented although I forget whether it was a final look at Gretl or Maria that preceded his taking the guitar from her. Got to go watch again.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 20, 2024 0:54:37 GMT
I love the idea that using CP’s real voice would have shown too much vulnerability for his character. Very interesting, ladies. I’m sure some of it was that they needed the soundtrack to be fabulous too, so they couldn’t have anyone's voice being subpar, even if it would add to the character development in the story.
It was definitely Maria that he looked at last. Gretl was right before that. I think it was Maria’s pleading that did him in, though he could tell himself it was the children’s.
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Post by augiesannie on Jan 20, 2024 19:09:36 GMT
I love the idea that using CP’s real voice would have shown too much vulnerability for his character. Very interesting, ladies. I’m sure some of it was that they needed the soundtrack to be fabulous too, so they couldn’t have anyone's voice being subpar, even if it would add to the character development in the story. It was definitely Maria that he looked at last. Gretl was right before that. I think it was Maria’s pleading that did him in, though he could tell himself it was the children’s. Yes yum yum yum. Another reason I think it had to be Bill Lee is that they did win the first prize at the Festival, so doesn’t he have to have a great voice? Although come to think of it he doesn’t really sing much of “so long farewell,” and I’m not sure if “edelweiss” was part of their formal act???
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jan 22, 2024 19:57:24 GMT
I like that they didn't make the captain a super big part of the festival songs. I imagine the car ride there being Georg and Max making an escape plan, while Maria and the children sorted out how to modify the songs. He went in basically unprepared, so just having him echo a few lines seemed realistic to me. Plus, not having heard him much gave more emotional power to his Edelweiss solo.
I like listening to the CP versions, but I am glad they used Bill Lee in the actual movie. The captain is so polished. I think his voice should match that.
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Post by indigoblue on Feb 4, 2024 0:07:55 GMT
Yes, I think a large part of the drama of the movie is that we don't really know exactly what he is thinking right up until they kiss, and a large part of that is because he is so inscrutable, hiding behind his military persona. To sense vulnerability in him may have eroded that facade too early, meaning the film became rather predictable. As things are, there is definitely a persistent feeling of 'will they, won't they?', which is reinforced by his slightly hands-off relationship with Elsa.
Just imagine if Elsa wasn't played with HER air of vulnerability by Eleanor Parker - she would have seemed a much less sympathetic character, and the balance between the two women would have been much less of a knife-edge affair.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 21, 2024 19:46:22 GMT
What do you think Maria was expecting from this song? She flashes him that very happy excited smile when he finally accepts the guitar, so the beginning was just excitement that he said yes. At the end, she is staring in speechless awe. Clearly, he had exceeded her expectations. I just wonder what they initially were.
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Post by augiesannie on Mar 25, 2024 23:51:49 GMT
Hmmm, since the children were the ones who cued her into his musical past, I imagine that even if they said that he plays folk songs, they could not have conveyed the heartfelt emotion he brought to the performance.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Mar 28, 2024 19:33:01 GMT
So, at the beginning, she's thinking "Yeah, this is so great! He's going to play a folk song! The children will get to he hear him sing, which will form a new bond between them! Maybe the song he sings will be a new song for me to teach the children tomorrow at our picnic!"
Then he starts singing. a love song. to her. and she's thinking "Wow. He's amazing, and talented, and handsome, and....*thud*...." Oh wait, that was my reaction, not hers.
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Post by Chris&Byng on Apr 1, 2024 23:50:24 GMT
So, at the beginning, she's thinking "Yeah, this is so great! He's going to play a folk song! The children will get to he hear him sing, which will form a new bond between them! Maybe the song he sings will be a new song for me to teach the children tomorrow at our picnic!" Then he starts singing. a love song. to her. and she's thinking "Wow. He's amazing, and talented, and handsome, and....*thud*...." Oh wait, that was my reaction, not hers. I LOL'd (and maybe swooned a bit) at the *thud*...we've all been there reverendcaptain
This is an interesting query/question/consideration. Maybe they were all expecting another rendition of "The Hills are Alive"? or something more light and spunky in keeping with the Lonely Goatherd?
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Post by captainfraulein on Apr 3, 2024 13:27:20 GMT
I never noticed the way he smiles at her in this scene until a rewatch last night and OMG I am swooning!!! SOM Forum (161.15 KB) Picture attached.
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Post by indigoblue on Apr 3, 2024 23:46:42 GMT
Swoon away - it's what we do best on this forum!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 18, 2024 19:16:30 GMT
I never noticed the way he smiles at her in this scene until a rewatch last night and OMG I am swooning!!! View Attachment Picture attached. Yes! I love the way she is smiling back at him too. It's so open and genuine. What do you think the thought bubbles are here? I think he's saying "You know, the only reason I'm doing this is because it's you doing the asking." and I think she's saying "I know! Squeeee!"
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Post by augiesannie on May 2, 2024 19:46:26 GMT
I never noticed the way he smiles at her in this scene until a rewatch last night and OMG I am swooning!!! View Attachment Picture attached. DEFINITELY swoony but I can't see the picture??
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 3, 2024 18:59:42 GMT
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Post by Chris&Byng on May 5, 2024 16:53:35 GMT
Oh this is one of my favourite moments. I was going backwards a little bit to see what the other angles were in the shot (i.e. can Elsa only see Maria? Can she see Georg?). And I noticed this a dozen or so stills earlier - after Maria has asked him to sign and he runs away with his 7-no-no..s. This is NOT the face of a man who is going to say "no". (Matter-of-factly, he seems to be enjoying it? ? )
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Post by augiesannie on May 9, 2024 12:50:41 GMT
“This is NOT the face of a man who is going to say “no” I LOVE this Chris&Byng
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