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Post by emilia78 on Apr 27, 2020 16:11:23 GMT
I was just wondering how experienced/sheltered or informed/uninformed people thought she was. Previous generations often had a hard time talking to their children about sex, and there was not the same level of information available to access independently (like in books or on the internet). I was just wondering if she was lacking in even basic information such as what a man's body looks like (since people were more modest in their dress in these days), or did she have some knowledge going into this. The lack of information via internet or tv does not mean that they did not know in that time, on the contrary...You know, people in the past knew how a cow or sheep is in reality, whereas today in cities they have just seen them from internet or tv, and never from near live. Also Maria grew up in a village, in a farm, with animals, and logically she played with boys and girls, when she was a little girl. She saw men and women in the fields working, harvesting etc. At that time the poor did not have bathrooms into the houses but outside, so she must have seen men hosing tap water on to themselves after a long summer day's work, or swimming into the nearby lakes and rivers. Also there were no hospitals as today, when a person was ill, he was taken care of at a house, and some people from his environment had the knowledge of giving him the right pills or botanicals. As Maria was a person of offer, I strongly believe that she helped whenever help was needed, like calling the doctor, helping older women take care of the ill, etc. Maria did not live in a protected sterilized environment like for example in a golden cage in Switzerland where everything was perfect, but she was exposed to real life, to a wicked childhood and miserable youth, as she says. I often wonder if this ''wicked'' implies that she had been raped by her uncle when her parents died. Violence against women at that time was considered something natural unfortunately. And Maria was a victim of such violence, physical and verbal, if not sexual. Imagine that even Liesl who lives in a higher and richer environment than Maria has knowledge about love and sex. And she grew up without a mother during the last 5 crucial years, and with a father constantly absent.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Apr 30, 2020 14:25:53 GMT
I've often wondered what "wicked childhood" and "miserable youth" meant exactly. Miserable because her parents died and she had to live with an abusive uncle? Though, this would not be her fault, of course. Why would she feel like "I must have done something good" (to be rewarded with the captain's love) when she has done nothing bad?
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Post by emilia78 on Apr 30, 2020 16:15:45 GMT
Why would she feel like "I must have done something good" (to be rewarded with the captain's love) when she has done nothing bad? I understand it as an expression of the gratitude she feels for what she has now. She had lost everything and now she has everything. She did good in the past and karma worked...the good was returned to her. Although she had a wicked childhood and miserable youth, she did not become a wicked person or a miserable personality, on the contrary her spirit was innocent, vivid and independent. And she now feels rewarded for captain's love and the new family she has. I keep thinking about ''wicked childhood'' meaning. What do you think?? If she was indeed sexually raped or physically abused, our perspective on her personality alters slightly regarding her innocence. But I believe even in this case, the abbey and faith to God would have helped her put things in order and go forward.
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Post by reverendcaptain on May 17, 2020 21:08:40 GMT
Does Maria know when she is sitting on the gazebo bench that she will never be a nun? She is heartbroken of course, but is part of her turmoil trying to figure out where she will go after the captain finds another governess because she knows she doesn't belong back at the abbey? Or is she wishing she could leave and take her vows that moment?
I think Georg knows that Maria likes him and that is why she returned. Does he think that she's realized that being a nun is not her destiny already? Or is he racing out there to make sure she doesn't disappear to the abbey forever before he talks to her?
I'm just wondering at what point each of them realize that Maria is never going back to the abbey.
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on May 17, 2020 21:19:21 GMT
I personally think that Georg probably knew Maria wasn't going to be a nun right around the time she left. I mean, he had to have a lot of time to think about Maria, and eventually came to that conclusion/realization.
For Maria, it was probably the moment that she heard that Elsa and Georg were engaged, or the moments she sat on the bench by herself.
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Post by indigoblue on May 17, 2020 23:34:25 GMT
I feel Maria's downhearted look outside the gazebo is because it has been both embarrassing and disheartening to find Georg is engaged, but also I think she may be feeling that, because she has fallen in love with him, that she has 'spoiled herself' for a life serving God. Even though she said with the Rev Mother that she would take her vows there and then, now back at the villa, the intensity of her love is apparent to her, so she is despondent about being able to return to the monastic way of life.
Georg, I think, thought that, once she had returned to the Abbey, she would follow that way of life for good, so it must have been a real shock (but a nice one) to see her back at the villa. Imagine his turmoil between her return and getting it together at the gazebo! Definitely something to keep him quiet at dinner...
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Post by reverendcaptain on Jul 24, 2020 12:54:45 GMT
What do you make of Georg asking Maria "What else does the RM say?" He is smiling and seems to be almost laughing as he says it. Is he just giddy with the realization that Maria is in love with him so he's just acting silly? Has he just made the connection, because Maria brought up that RM says "When the Lord closes a door somewhere He opens a window", that it was RM's doing that Maria came back to him, so he wants to know more about her? Is he just asking about her because it is clear that she is important to Maria?
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Jul 25, 2020 1:27:12 GMT
What do you make of Georg asking Maria "What else does the RM say?" He is smiling and seems to be almost laughing as he says it. Is he just giddy with the realization that Maria is in love with him so he's just acting silly? Has he just made the connection, because Maria brought up that RM says "When the Lord closes a door somewhere He opens a window", that it was RM's doing that Maria came back to him, so he wants to know more about her? Is he just asking about her because it is clear that she is important to Maria? I think he was honestly curious about everything the RM and Maria talked about. However, Georg, in my opinion, was way more giddy than anything.
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Post by indigoblue on Jul 26, 2020 23:52:46 GMT
She doesn't seem to me to be naive - rather, oddly confident in a nice sort of way (in the way she manages quite a few effective ripostes to his autocratic style).I just think she is a little scared of the Captain as he is intimidating, but she seems ok in her own skin and with herself.
So when it comes to it, as you say, she is all in for the kissing.I can only assume it is the same for bed, when it comes...
My thoughts are that she has had plenty of attention before her postulancy.
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Post by augiesannie on Aug 1, 2020 17:06:07 GMT
I always think of Maria as assuming there is no turning back to Nonnberg. RM has told her that the love of a man and woman can be holy too. If that isn't a "you'd be happier somewhere else" signal, I don't know what is. I also agree that she had not been super-pure before her postulancy.
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 5, 2020 23:04:45 GMT
When he asks Maria "What else did the RM say?", it is his way of asking more about her and her background and what aspirations she has. Lord knows they have had precious little time to talk about each other at all (unless they had opportunities between the scenes which we are not party to).
They actually know very little about each other!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 6, 2020 2:54:38 GMT
I think of her as not having had much attention before her postulancy, only because she seems so shocked by Elsa dropping the bomb that she is in love. If she had been in relationships before, she would recognize that she had fallen in love with Georg and her reaction to Elsa would have been more of can't-look-you-in-the-eyes embarrassment. Though, I think she would have run away either way.
I do agree that she is confident in her own skin, and that once she knows that Georg loves her, she is not shy about learning how to express that with him.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Aug 11, 2020 13:24:24 GMT
My DVD will start playing where it left off last time I watched it even if it has been taken out and put back in to the DVD player. I turned this on the other day and my youngest was like, "Why does this movie always start when they are kissing?" To which I responded, "oh....ummm...well...I..uh....I think there must be a setting on the DVD that starts it in the same spot every time." Maybe it's just that if I just have a few minutes to chill out and watch, I always pick the Laendler and then the gazebo scene...
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Post by indigoblue on Aug 11, 2020 22:42:41 GMT
You are not alone - I have had exactly the same experience - I think my DVD is worn out over the Laendler and Gazebo scene...
Those two are entirely mesmerising.
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Post by utility_singer on Aug 17, 2020 11:18:34 GMT
I think of her as not having had much attention before her postulancy, only because she seems so shocked by Elsa dropping the bomb that she is in love. If she had been in relationships before, she would recognize that she had fallen in love with Georg and her reaction to Elsa would have been more of can't-look-you-in-the-eyes embarrassment. Though, I think she would have run away either way. I do agree that she is confident in her own skin, and that once she knows that Georg loves her, she is not shy about learning how to express that with him. I think it is more that she is shocked that Elsa could tell, not that she's in love with him. And perhaps shocked to hear it out loud.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 18:14:53 GMT
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Post by augiesannie on Sept 11, 2020 22:57:50 GMT
My DVD will start playing where it left off last time I watched it even if it has been taken out and put back in to the DVD player. I turned this on the other day and my youngest was like, "Why does this movie always start when they are kissing?" To which I responded, "oh....ummm...well...I..uh....I think there must be a setting on the DVD that starts it in the same spot every time." Maybe it's just that if I just have a few minutes to chill out and watch, I always pick the Laendler and then the gazebo scene... this made me laugh so hard. I'm with you!
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Post by reverendcaptain on Oct 6, 2020 15:26:53 GMT
I think it is really telling in this scene how honestly she says "I missed the children". Everything up to that point is them having nervous conversation without really saying anything, but this seems so sincere, like she's been wanting to say it out loud but hasn't had anyone to say it to. It brings me back to the conversation we were having over in the "please don't ask me" thread, with ANeedlePullingThread theory on Maria subtly jabbing Elsa's lack of mothering skills with her "only until arrangements can be made for another governess" line. Maria saying that she missed the children has to be a very welcome thing for Georg to hear. He's in love with her AND she's going to be a wonderful mother to his kids.
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Post by jennifer1983 on Nov 11, 2020 6:22:06 GMT
When Georg sits down on the bench with Maria outside the Gazebo I can tell he's nervous, also when you see Maria sitting down on the bench before Georg finds her she's heartbroken because she loves Georg and she comes back and finds out that he's engaged to the baroness.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Nov 11, 2020 15:01:25 GMT
Yes. I love how he starts out nervous and she starts out heartbroken and then they have to slowly navigate through that until they are both sure of the other's feelings. Then, the damn bursts open, and we go from unsure to kissing, to singing, to marriage proposal all in a few short minutes!
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Post by ANeedlePullingThread on Nov 11, 2020 19:38:45 GMT
Yes. I love how he starts out nervous and she starts out heartbroken and then they have to slowly navigate through that until they are both sure of the other's feelings. Then, the damn bursts open, and we go from unsure to kissing, to singing, to marriage proposal all in a few short minutes! To this day I still laugh at the audible “nose whistle” he has in between saying “Well” and the “nothing was the same” And on a more serious side, when he sits down at first and the camera angle is on him, Maria seem almost annoyed or mad that he’s there, then the angle switches, and it’s almost as if she is trying not to cry. Only he knows he’s free at that point. Her look after the kiss, her eyes changing from shock to a very strong look of “I love you but you’ve put me through such turmoil”. Then her hug. I always turn up the brightness because when she brings up Rev mother, you can see her smiling massively and her fingers and caressing his back so sweetly. Swoon!!!
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Post by indigoblue on Nov 12, 2020 0:45:10 GMT
I read "I missed the children" a little differently, because while I'm sure it is true, surely the main reason she returned is because she missed HIM, and needed to find out what was going to happen next between them?
So when she responds to him slightly angrily with "I missed the children", there is a look on her face which says to me that she is trying to tell him to back off a little with his very direct questioning (he has pushed her into a corner because she can't say "I came back because I love you"). Thus, she buys a bit of space for herself, specially when she asks if that is wrong (clever girl!).
So he can see he has to try another tack, and drops his defences, "Nothing was the same..." which works a treat. I have to say he is slurpily gorgeous when he does that...
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sandra
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Post by sandra on Nov 12, 2020 7:33:42 GMT
Since I first watched this movie when I was 13, the gazebo scene became "THE LOVE SCENE", period. Nothing I've ever seen compares to it. NOTHING. I spent entire nights sitting in my bed in the dark, writing slight variations on that scene, using my little flashlight so no one would see. I wore out the videotape, playing the scene forwards and backwards. Yeah, backwards! I sort of put myself in a state where I WAS Maria, feeling Georg's kisses and caresses on my very skin and throbbing inside like mad. It was such a profound, personal experience that I'll never forget it. And I tried to replicate those feelings by writing about it over and over again. Thank heavens, I destroyed those pages decades ago, because I'm positive my eyes would bleed in embarrassment at how ghastly BAD they were. But those failures led me here today, where I can begin to enjoy my writing and be proud of some sentences here and there. You all know what I mean.
Amazingly, I still keep on writing about that scene. It's as if I was seeking, searching, searching forever, trying to come up with the perfect story that would encompass everything I've ever written and put it together in a puzzle that would show me the PERFECT image. I know it's an impossible quest, but I keep trying. I think I always will.
As a matter of fact, yet ANOTHER variation of that scene is one of the stories that has been gathering dust in my hard drive for years now. It pains me so much to see it there, unfinished. But it's an insurmountable task. I know the story will never measure up to the perfection I have in my head, and it frustrates me so much that I just can't complete it. Invariably, whenever I reach the last line I wrote, my fingers won't cooperate and continue typing. It's just impossible. Even the kiss that I could sort of tolerate at first, seems so stretched out, so artificial and... ARGH, frustrating! Gosh, how much I hate this feeling!
That's the problem when you're facing the utter perfection they all achieved when they made this masterpiece. How to put a feeling into words? Feelings as sublime as they ones I feel every time I see Georg reaching up and holding Maria's chin in his hand? That's when magic starts and it's not about words anymore.
Sorry about the rant. I'm soooo far gone...
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Post by ANeedlePullingThread on Nov 12, 2020 13:52:21 GMT
Since I first watched this movie when I was 13, the gazebo scene became "THE LOVE SCENE", period. Nothing I've ever seen compares to it. NOTHING. I spent entire nights sitting in my bed in the dark, writing slight variations on that scene, using my little flashlight so no one would see. I wore out the videotape, playing the scene forwards and backwards. Yeah, backwards! I sort of put myself in a state where I WAS Maria, feeling Georg's kisses and caresses on my very skin and throbbing inside like mad. It was such a profound, personal experience that I'll never forget it. And I tried to replicate those feelings by writing about it over and over again. Thank heavens, I destroyed those pages decades ago, because I'm positive my eyes would bleed in embarrassment at how ghastly BAD they were. But those failures led me here today, where I can begin to enjoy my writing and be proud of some sentences here and there. You all know what I mean. Amazingly, I still keep on writing about that scene. It's as if I was seeking, searching, searching forever, trying to come up with the perfect story that would encompass everything I've ever written and put it together in a puzzle that would show me the PERFECT image. I know it's an impossible quest, but I keep trying. I think I always will. As a matter of fact, yet ANOTHER variation of that scene is one of the stories that has been gathering dust in my hard drive for years now. It pains me so much to see it there, unfinished. But it's an insurmountable task. I know the story will never measure up to the perfection I have in my head, and it frustrates me so much that I just can't complete it. Invariably, whenever I reach the last line I wrote, my fingers won't cooperate and continue typing. It's just impossible. Even the kiss that I could sort of tolerate at first, seems so stretched out, so artificial and... ARGH, frustrating! Gosh, how much I hate this feeling! That's the problem when you're facing the utter perfection they all achieved when they made this masterpiece. How to put a feeling into words? Feelings as sublime as they ones I feel every time I see Georg reaching up and holding Maria's chin in his hand? That's when magic starts and it's not about words anymore. Sorry about the rant. I'm soooo far gone... Keep writing. That’s the one scene everyone wanted to last forever!!!!
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Post by ANeedlePullingThread on Nov 16, 2020 14:50:30 GMT
I read "I missed the children" a little differently, because while I'm sure it is true, surely the main reason she returned is because she missed HIM, and needed to find out what was going to happen next between them? So when she responds to him slightly angrily with "I missed the children", there is a look on her face which says to me that she is trying to tell him to back off a little with his very direct questioning (he has pushed her into a corner because she can't say "I came back because I love you"). Thus, she buys a bit of space for herself, specially when she asks if that is wrong (clever girl!). So he can see he has to try another tack, and drops his defences, "Nothing was the same..." which works a treat. I have to say he is slurpily gorgeous when he does that... Every time I watch it I see something new. When he asks her “Is that why you came back, her facial expression changes so much, without a word she levels with him. Almost as if to say “of course I came back for you, I l’ve loved you this whole time” and he knew it. So he says it first and powerfully. She’s dropped every last bit of defense and denial towards him. Darn it, I get chills and tears each time.
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Post by reverendcaptain on Dec 30, 2020 7:14:11 GMT
I really like after their first kiss that Georg pulls back has a slight smile on his lips. Not a self satisfied smile, but more like a relief smile or maybe a reassuring smile since she still has an "omg did that just happen" look on her face.
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Post by Silver-White-Winters on Jan 1, 2021 17:59:11 GMT
I read "I missed the children" a little differently, because while I'm sure it is true, surely the main reason she returned is because she missed HIM, and needed to find out what was going to happen next between them? So when she responds to him slightly angrily with "I missed the children", there is a look on her face which says to me that she is trying to tell him to back off a little with his very direct questioning (he has pushed her into a corner because she can't say "I came back because I love you"). Thus, she buys a bit of space for herself, specially when she asks if that is wrong (clever girl!). So he can see he has to try another tack, and drops his defences, "Nothing was the same..." which works a treat. I have to say he is slurpily gorgeous when he does that... Every time I watch it I see something new. When he asks her “Is that why you came back, her facial expression changes so much, without a word she levels with him. Almost as if to say “of course I came back for you, I l’ve loved you this whole time” and he knew it. So he says it first and powerfully. She’s dropped every last bit of defense and denial towards him. Darn it, I get chills and tears each time. Glad I'm not the only one that gets chills and tears each time I watch the gazebo scene.
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Post by indigoblue on Jan 1, 2021 23:16:39 GMT
I really like after their first kiss that Georg pulls back has a slight smile on his lips. Not a self satisfied smile, but more like a relief smile or maybe a reassuring smile since she still has an "omg did that just happen" look on her face. I love that ghost of a smile too, because I'm sure when he leans down towards her, he is not absolutely sure that she really wants him to kiss her. But when she doesn't flinch, I see the smile as evidence that he is now sure it was the right thing to do.
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Post by jennifer1983 on Feb 10, 2021 6:08:05 GMT
I watched TSOM again recently and whenever I watched that scene between Georg and Maria sitting on the bench outside of the gazebo I never saw it look liked Maria was about to cry until I watched that scene again. I seem to pick up new things every time I watch the the movie.
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Post by utility_singer on Feb 10, 2021 12:37:54 GMT
I watched TSOM again recently and whenever I watched that scene between Georg and Maria sitting on the bench outside of the gazebo I never saw it look liked Maria was about to cry until I watched that scene again. I seem to pick up new things every time I watch the the movie. YES. And that is the sign of how brilliantly directed and acted is it. Robert Wise was an editor before he started directing---both sound and film---and it shows, both in the way he did his job, and the team he had to work with in front of and behind the camera.
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